MarkEzra

Thanks for letting the CM gaming community know about SPW@W. Many of us will be playing both games. Your record of service to the wargamers is well known. The great scen you are contributing to CM will be testimony to your love of wargaming and wargamers.

No worries. The works of art you've already created are much appreciated!

All the boys at the "Hollywood Canteen" just loved the film.

I'm a long time player of SP. It was the most flexible, fun war game out there. When SSI handed the code to The SP Camo group and later to the Matrix folks I was very pleased. The SPWW@ and SPW@W configuration are "gamers" efforts to improve the game. They deserve our thanks as well as our support. The comments of SOME SP followers regarding CM are just wrong. Most of the SP guys I know can't wait for CM to come out. They see it, as I do, as a completely new direction in wargaming. When Matrix gets SPW@W out I'll put it on the hard drive. SP may be the culmination of hex/turn based gaming. CM is the brave new world. I'll honor the past as I play in the future

Finally a good war movie at a great price!

I'm playing "Hidden and Dangerous". I'm not fan of FPS...have never played one til now. Just like that it's WW2 with great 3D. I keep thinking it's a bit like the old war movie, "The Guns of Navaron". Anyway I'm having fun Simmon...Thank you! Just downloaded the SSG Ardenes game.

Thanks for the FYI, B&G. For those who aren't rabid SP'rs, SP World at War will be a free downloadable game from TGN and The Raiders. It should not be compared to CM...after all what could? SPW@W is a true labor of love by some very gifted folks to produce the kind of SP we all wanted to see. I look forward to it's release just as much as I do CM's

Many, many thanks for the heads up

Zamo: I understand exactly how you feel. I had been playing Steel Panthers (SPWW2) against the AI for years. I was too afraid to play PBEM against the "experts". When CM came out I kinda felt it was new and maybe I'd have a chance of not looking like a complete fool. Man, am I glad I got the guts to start playing PBEM. Yes, I've had my butt kicked...but I've done some kicking myself. No matter win or lose...It's total fun. Also I've met some great guys...Go on jump in, Zamo the waters fine!

Thanks for the update! I have the upmost confidence in BTS. I actually don't think the game is delayed or overdue. While I, like so many others, await the release with real anticipation....please..take your time, make it right. I'm certain gaming history will be made when CM is released.

In Bruce Lee's book, "Marching Orders", the history of the Magic intercepts of the Japanese diplomatic code, the Allies were well aware of a proposed counter stroke on the West front scheduled for early November (page 264-266). When that didn't happen the Shafe conclusion seems to be it couldn't happen. The Allies just seemed to believe their own press clippings.

Marks List of things to do today: 1. Buy a dictionary (English) 2. Enroll in English Class 3. Call MD get Rx for chill pills. Fionn: As you can see I'll be busy for awhile...Would you do me a favor? Provide a source or two that refute Keengan's numbers.

How False Keegan's figures are and I should have known it? I've just got to shake my head about that. Attack away, chum...Keegan and I are both just lying bastards...and you've caught us both!

Fionn I just reread your last post...I gave you the source for my information. I'll give it again...Harper Collins Atlas of Second World War, Edited by John Keegan, Pub 1989 Times Books Ltd, London. The maps I reviewed specifically seperated concentration camp victims. Rear echolon, no. Nor did I ever say that those stastical facts given indicated anything other than civilians killed in WW2. I hope any person doubting my sincerity or motives will check out the book I used. I feel that my honor has been assulted and I wish to make clear that what I said was documented for all to see.

Fionn: Why off on a tangent? Steve's post said the US killed more civilians through military action. I gave statistics that showed that Japan had killed more from direct military action...Your suggestion that rear area troops killing civilians wasn't military action seems silly to me, frankly...but OK...sure I'll ignore those millions of Russian and others. My statistical evidence was always given with accuracy in mind. In no way did/would I mislead the readers of this forum. As for you view of Amnerican "comfort myths"...What in the world do you think we talk about here in this country? Dresden, Nagasaki, Heroshima are known to most literate Americans. There is a general understanding of the overkill created by mass bombings, ect. Generally speaking people in this country have done more and tried harder to protect civilian's than any other country I know of. I have always felt that the terrible destruction and loss of life visited on the German population in 1945 shocked our post war leaders. There is a strong view that something needed to be done to stop the Nazi domination of Europe. I wouldn't call it a comfort myth, though.

Scientific Test Results! I ran a little test using CE 2 Stuggs and 2 Shermans. Out of site of each other shooting at buildings.... Stugg 1.....5 rounds 60sec Stugg 2.....5 rounds 60 sec Sherman 1...6 rounds 60 sec Sherman 2...5 rounds 60 sec

Steve Fact...Leningrad was under a state of sige for some 900 hundred days...Stravation of the population was a result of that siege. As to your comment: "Certainly Germany was responsible for more total civilian deaths than any other country", Couldn't agree more.

Sometime around August, '99 I got a heads up from Wild Bill, TGN/Raiders/E-mail list.I kept a watchful eye. When the Beta came out, I bought a new computer so I could actually play it. Best money I ever spent!

Sigh....Fionn you might want to check some facts. Here's just one. This is again from Keegan's Atlas of WW2, page 65: "The official death toll for the seige of Leningrad is 632,000 although the victims probably numbered nearer a million". One town, no SS, just a good old fashioned artillery pounding (including 100,000 incendiary shell). A bit more than your 200,000 figure for all civilian casualties in Russia. I'ld be interested to know your source for that figure of yours.

Sigh Fionn Are we perhaps forgetting the Russian Civil population. Stalingrad, Leningrad, Kharkov, Kiev? What of the directives to obliterate the Russian landscape. 7 million dead civilian can't be accounted for as reprisals. By the way reprisals are "Military action"...Do you begin to see Bombing a city, terror bombing if you like, rounding up civilian populations and killing them are both "Military actions" Sherman actions demonstrate the effectiveness and efficacy of Military action directed at the civilian population. Steve's comment was America "Racked up the largest body count". The facts I've presented refute that. His differentiation was "Military action not concentration camps" The statistical evidence I provided did not include 6 million dead in concentration camps. I think we can conclude that Japan "racked up" more civilian casualties with Germany not so far behind. The United States and the Allies "racked up" civilians at a fine clip. But not the most.

Fionn My source excluded concentration camp body counts from the totals...that's a whole other list...Looks to me that military actions by German forces in Poland and the USSR as well as IJA war tactics in China from '37-45 make the Steve's comments in error to statical evidence. If you or Steve would care to show some data that indicates some sort of relutance on the part of the Axis to kill civilians while in engaging in "military action", I would be interested to see it and consider changing my opinion. Otherwise I stand by what I said.

The first step to recovery is recognizing you have a problem. The second step is turning your will and life over to a power greater than yourself. I HAD a problem...playing inferior war games but I turned my will and my life over to CM. Now everything is peachy!

My Reference is Harper Collins Atlas of the Second World War, edited by John Keegan Civilian casualties 1939-1945 France 173,260 Holland 236,00 Britin 60,595 Germany 2,300,000 Soviet Union 7 million Poland 5 million Italy 93,000 Japan 300,000 China up to 10 million What was it that Stalin said..." the death of single person is a tragic, the death of millions merely a statistic.

America the biggest killer of civilians in World War Two?....Can anybody count 20 Million Russian Dead? I don't know guys? Did Those terrible Americans bomb there, too!

My Uncle Dick Rosenstrauch was a medic in the 45th Inf Div. Uncle Dick has a disposition and personality of pure sunshine.He saw action in Western Europe and Germany. He never talks of the mangaled boys he cared for but only tells funny stories. His wife tells me he still awakens in the night screaming out names of now long dead comrades. God bless him. My Father, Everette Ezra built "a ship a day" at the Kaiser shipyards of San Francisco. Towards the end of the war he was hired as a wilder for a small metal specialty shop. After getting a securty clearance he was assigned to work on a project. Building a fairly large, oval casement. One a many project the company did. A few years later When the Atomic Bomb secrets were stolen and the country was in the gripe of the "Red Scare", The FBI came to our door. Not more than 5-6 year old at the time I actually have a vivid recollection of the two men, both with slouch hats and long overcoats, intervwing my father. The questioned Dad about that Oval casement he had helped build...the "Fat Man" Atomic Bomb.