Dr. Zhivago Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 You know what pisses me off? People who believe "Saving Private Ryan" to be some super-realistic war documentary. </rant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Servo Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 BUT IT IS MAN!!! Haha yeah... it's funny... ------------------ Formally Tom punkrawk "Tomorrows killed by yesterday..." -Link80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 You know what pisses me off? People who think the whole movie stinks because they substituted P-51s for P-47s or that they used the wrong tactics by not clearing the buildings before sending a Tiger down the street. Chill out! It was an excellent movie that show just how horrible and violent D-Day and the whole war was. I have never seen a war movie that disturbed me until I saw Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zhivago Posted February 8, 2000 Author Share Posted February 8, 2000 The Longest Day. Captures the horror of D-Day just as well, and manages to make it through an entire movie without throwing in a huge amount of Hollywoodisms to keep the 15-year-old audiance glued to their seats. - Doc. - Sticky bombs... good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Actually, P-51's were routinely used for ground support, much to the dismay of the pilots. It is like using F-16's to replace A-10's, only a moron would suggest doing that... NO movie can be rated as a documentary. In fact, I don't think that any documentary can be rated as such. They are just too bland and limited in actual real information. SPR was a good movie, with it's faults, just like any movie. Dr. Zhivago is right in professing that this movie should not be used in order to correctly represent history. What they did in the movie would probably not have happened in real life. The ending battle was of pure fiction and totally unrealistic, notice, I am not bashing the movie, just it's historicalness. Actually, he didn't say it was a bad movie, just a bad documentary. The most disturbing war movies according to me... 1 Schindler's List (if you would classify this as one) 2 The Killing Fields (much like #1) 3 Apocalypse Now [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 02-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Although a fan of The Longest Day, I don't think it can hold a candle to SPR's opening scene. When I saw it in the theater I was in utter shock. Sorry, but the heavy handed drama and B&W images of The Longest Day didn't do that for me one bit. And don't forget that movie had its fair share of cheese and over acting SPR is a very well done movie. Perfect? Hardly. I saw a couple of reenactors trashing (and I mean TRASHING) the movie because they used the wrong style of chinstraps on the helmets. Good Lord... get a life! Yes, it would have been better if they got 99.9999% of the things totally correct, but cripes! Ever tried to make a movie? Easier said than done. On the other side of the coin, people that look at SPR and ask why CM doesn't do things like snipre duals is just as bad. But that isn't SPR's fault. Why not? Because anybody that watches one film and thinks they know something about what the realism behind the story is simply wrong to do so. In the end, SPR is only a movie. It is not a documentary. Therefore its ultimate goal is to entertain in the broad sense of the word. Education is a secondary goal and I think it did an admirable job. Obviously the weak point from a historical standpoint (the main one anyways) was the fight at the end. Some thigns where done very well, others were done purely for script reasons. But again, it isn't a documentary, so that is fine in my book. I judge a movie for what it is, not what someone else wants/thinks it should be. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 02-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Hey, the more times I see it, the more inaccuracies I find, but it's still a good movie, especially for the non-mil set. Sometimes folks need a wake-up call and if Spielberg wants to take it on his shoulders and give the complacent folk a shake, then more power to him. I'm glad they removed the subtitle of "Based on a True Story" before releasing it though, cuz there ain't enough of the original story left. PS: Sticky bombs were definitely used by the British at Villers Bocage. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Its a powerful movie but I would never watch it again for two reasons. 1.) I dont wish to be shocked again. 2.) I am sick of spielbergs "The US won the war single handed" attitude. The big shame was that the Thin red Line got overshadowed by SPR because SPR was more shocking and had bigger names but I do think that TRL is a better movie on reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Thin Red Line was a cinematographic masterpiece. I got so caught up in the imagery that I couldn't follow the philosophical wanderings of the protagonist, so I came away with next to nuthin' ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 LOL DanE. I hope you're joking with your "tanks explode into flames for no reasons" post If not though I'd suggest not running them directly in front of German ATG screens. They won't blow up for no discernible reason if you stop doing that LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I don't know if any one else has mentioned this but there was one thing that US units could have done but didn't. When they were approached by the Hanomag in the field and the airborne(?) bazooka squad took it out, why oh why didn't they grab the MG34's from it? (and the dead crew's weapons?) The whole thing about the last battle was their limited ammunition and firepower with which to defend the town. A couple of captured MG34's would have contributed quite a bit. The main characters were a ranger unit, correct? And the para's were pretty highly trained, so you can't say they wouldn't have the technical capability to operate German weaponry. What does everyone think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Dog Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 On of the finest war movies IMO is Battleground.Realeased -49,it won an Oscar for best script and one for cinematography. It recounts the Battle of the Bulge.What makes it interesting is that is shows the soldiers as real people,not the hero gung-ho type of soldiers who likes to die for country,or Sarge.Spielberg,who I don´t fancy that much,spoke of this film as an inspiration to SPR.Check it out. "Well Watson,you have one more specimen of the tragic and grotesque to add to your collection" GhostDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 One thing everyone fails to mention also is the WWII Veterans who went to see the movie and came out with emotions that they hadnt felt since D-Day. Hard to knock a fictional movie because you dont think it is realistic. They never said it was in the first place, but go ask the Vets how real that opening scene was to them. Until you have been in a massive fire engagement, how do you know what realism is anyway? Books arent the only way to have expertise on history, and neither are imaginations. Ray ------------------ www.panzerelite.iwarp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penubly Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 Anyone voluteering to replace Gene Siskel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 I think The Longest Day was a joke compared to SPR. There was absolutely no "horror" in The Longest Day. Other than Spielberg himself, The Thin Red Line had many more and far bigger names in it. It was almost "A Bridge Too Far" like in that respect. It is ironic to me that one of the things we yearn for in our wargames is "immersion", then some turn around and bash a movie that immersed us in warfare like no other in history -- saying it resorted to "Hollywoodism". The greatest power of the film medium is its ability to place us "there". Spielberg has done it better than most for 25 years. Didn't we all feel like we were on the boat in Jaws? Likewise on the landing craft in SPR? That does not happen by accident, it happens because of Spielberg's genius. I am older than 15 (38) and I was gripping the arms of my seat. Come to think of it, I gripped the arms of my seat at Jurassic Park and Jaws too. dumbo -- Why do you say that Spielberg has a "The U.S. won the war singlehanded" attitude? I never got that impression from SPR. True, Hanks and Danson make reference to Monty stalling in his taking of Caen, but Spielberg is hardly alone in that belief. In fact, he probably picked that up from Ambrose, who is no Monty fan if you have read his works. I dare say that most on this board have been taught that Monty suffered from McLellanistic "slows". Is there something else, unrelated to SPR, that makes you deduce that Spielberg has this attitude? Pixman ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 One thing I've never understood is the people who feel that the scenes beginning SPR were gut-churning etc. Personally I found them quite formulaic and didn't find anything at all shocking about them. Lots of men got limbs and heads blown off or screamed in pain. Firstly, I found that some of the effects to simulate blown off limbs were rather weak and secondly I felt there was far too little capturing of the "moment of impact" which would have been much more horrific than simply scanning through a collection of already dead bodies. My wife found it much more disturbing actually and she thinks it's because I've done medical training etc and so have seen amputations/crashes etc first hand and am trained not to get shocked by that stuff but personally I found the landing scene highly unbelievable. In reality there would have been much, much more screaming and shreds of body everywhere IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: LOL DanE. I hope you're joking with your "tanks explode into flames for no reasons" post If not though I'd suggest not running them directly in front of German ATG screens. They won't blow up for no discernible reason if you stop doing that LOL <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fionn: Thanks for the advice. That may come in handy. It will be a LONG time before I forget my first game. (Flashback: "OK. Let's send these two tanks down this nice, paved road. There's too many trees on this flank, let's get these other tanks out in that clearing so they can see. Did I forget something? Oh yeah, the infantry. Just send them behind the tanks. Now where is that GO button?") The above "planning" quickly led to a lot of those dang explosions that I mentioned earlier. Then the smoke, the fire, my men running for the rear, my men being cut down by enemy MG fire...I think you can figure out the rest. And I never even saw the enemy as I looked over the remains of my "Master plan of destruction". Dan [This message has been edited by DanE (edited 02-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerLeader Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 They should do a movie on the Eastern Front...soon. A movie based on "The Forgotten Soldier" would make SPR look like a Walt Disney production And it would also kindly remind some Americans that they were not alone out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted February 8, 2000 Share Posted February 8, 2000 The beginning of SPR was the most immersive war experience I can remember from any movie. Since impressions are necessarily personal I won't waste time trying to convince anyone else that "it was SO", it just was for me. What really got me (and many others) was when the door of the landing craft dropped, and the zing and snap of bullets on steel just surrounds you. Most movies dwell on the horrific sounds of the guns. I think the sounds of the bullets were much more terrifying, and don't remember any other movie paying so much attention to that. Thin Red Line, on the other hand, was very disturbing, because of the 3 bucks I paid to rent it. That's most of a pack of smokes, anymore. Nice tropical birds 'n' all, but I'd rather have the cigs. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Zeares Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Fionn's comments about not finding the opening to SPR shocking are interesting. In my Guard unit there were several policemen, and my LT was a fireman. Sometimes they would trade "war stories" about the horrible things they had seen; people caught under a rolling car and squashed flat, guys dropped down the stairs by the paramedics, dismemberments, decapitations, etc. All of this told in a relaxed, joking atmosphere. Their constant exposure had made them callous (which they themselves noted and commented on). They probably didn't see much shocking in SPR either. Those of us who haven't witnessed such things up close, on the other hand... I have friends who say they can never watch it again, and barely made it through the first time. For me, the opening scene has lost a lot of its power with repeated viewing on video, but that first time in the theater was intense. The final battle sucked me in, too. As the "Tiger" came rumbling down the street, one part of my brain was calmly thinking, "Hm, looks like a T-34, like in "Kelly's Heros. Nice VISMOD," while another, more primitive part was trying to tell me to run for my life. The sound had a lot to do with that. Those super-low frequencies are litterally gut-wrenching. Bottom line is, the movie got my pulse racing. -- Mike Zeares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Major Tom- Excellent about the A-10s-future pilot here. Only an idiot would replace them with F-16s (as the USAF leadership found out after tests. Yes, SPR's story is farce, but Omaha 30 minutes is good. ------------------ Sosabowski, 1st Pol. Abn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PanzerLeader: They should do a movie on the Eastern Front...soon. A movie based on "The Forgotten Soldier" would make SPR look like a Walt Disney production And it would also kindly remind some Americans that they were not alone out there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Achtung! Fremde Heeres Ost (Foreign Armies East) STRONGLY recommends you see Stalingrad (by producers of Das Boot) soonest. Fur der General Gehlen, Johann von Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 One night, long ago, on the late-late-late-late show, I saw an Italian-made film about Italians on the Eastern Front. It was a remarkable movie and very well made. The sense of utter desolation on the snow-swept steppe came across loud and clear, and far better than Stalingrad IMO. I wish I could remember the name of it. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 "I am sick of spielbergs "The US won the war single handed" attitude." What kind of vomit is this? Speilberg includes a scene with a couple GIs bitching about Monty, no more typical a conversation of grand strategy between two Joes could have been modelled. Spielbergs making a movie about American forces, what's he supposed to waste time and money putting in all this PC bull****? You know if some Brit director would get off his ass and make a movie half as good about WW2 I'd hardly be offended if they chose not to include any American perspectives or if you had two pomms sitting aorund scratching their asses and bitching about all those goddamn yanks hitting on their women and relying on all their firepower to get out of doing any real fighting. But then again I wasn't offended at Peckenpah when he chose not to respectfully acknowledge all the Hungarian and Rumanian contributions to the Axis cause on the eastern front. I mean, the nerve of that guy! Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 PanzerLeader and co. -- what is "The Forgotten Soldier"? Also, if any of you guys have a script, treatment or just an idea for a "real" war movie please email me. Let me explain: The company I work for in Los Angeles has a production deal with one of the major studios and we are actively seeking material for development. I love war movies, personally. And I agree with the people who think SPR was lame (although very impressive from a technical perspective). I would like to see some of you WWII buffs put together a REAL war story. Hell, you guys have read all the books and you know all the history - technical and otherwise. And now that you've seen SPR, you know what we can do out here in Hollywood! I'm betting that some of you guys have some pretty good ideas for movies. If so, get a screenwriting how-to book and get to work (there is still time to write before CM comes out!) I'll check back to this thread occasionally, but if any of you guys have any material, please let me know ASAP via email at bdwhitne@pepperdine.edu. If you send me any "ideas", please remember that mere ideas are not copyrightable, nor are historical facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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