How accurate are Kriegsmarine ranks?

[Frenchy56]

Having just purchased CM Normandy's big pack, I jumped in to take a look at the Kriegsmarine formations and I've come to realize that the only commissioned officer present in any formation is the battalion commander, who holds the rank of Ensign. This is very doubtful for me, surely there would be a few more, even for such ragtag formations?

I've done some limited research on Kriegsmarine ranks, and I don't have much of an idea of how they apply to ground forces. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

[IronCat60]

Me thinks that Battlefront did their due diligence in research before putting the Kriegsmarine into the game. As far as a Ensign being assigned as the commanding officer that is definitely a plausible reality. Many Ensigns were commanders of WW2 PT Boats and River Patrol Boats in Vietnam even though it was a position normally assigned to a Lieutenant. When you're short on people the highest rank gets the responsibility. Heck I was a Company First Sergeant for eight months as a Staff Sergeant (Promotable) in a new unit that was forming in Germany.

Here is a interesting article on the German Navy and Marines (who knew they had a Marine force). It also has links to Feldgrau (a good WW2 German Forces site) on the subject. Now before anyone gets too excited about German Marines read the article. http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=290951

Also there is a new uniform mod that covers the Kriegsmarine Coastal Artillery pressed into infantry service. It is: ezCMBN-Kriegsmarine-Coastal-Artillery. I picked that up at: https://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=8257

Yes, that link still works.

[Rinaldi]

Yes I believe that's erroneous. A lot of the Kriegsmarine formations in France and the Netherlands that found themselves pressed into service as riflemen either came from Torpedo schools or the U-Boat Flotillas themselves, especially in Brittany - to say nothing of the infantry "divisions" they formed during the last few desperate months of fighting. I'm willing to accept that there was a low amount of officers to NCOs, given that most of the still-active Kriegsmarine men would have been drawn from these types of units, which were habitually tiny, but I doubt as junior a rating as an Ensign would be leading entire battalions.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Rinaldi

[Warts 'n' all]

Without knowing what you "jumped into" it is hard to explain what you are seeing. But, given the fact that the Kriegsmarine units that fought in the Netherlands came from training schools it was probably a case of any officer available.

Are there any battalion level battles involving the KM?

 

 

[sburke]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:56 PM, IronCat60 said:

Here is a interesting article on the German Navy and Marines (who knew they had a Marine force). 

I recall one of those Critical Hit ASL packs having a feature on the German 2nd Marine Division.  They have an ATS module Across the Aller also featuring the fighting between the 2nd Marines and the British 11th Armoured.

 

These however are not the Kriegsmarine as represented in MG.  A little note on this forum from 2013- 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by sburke

[LukeFF]

On 7/8/2019 at 10:56 PM, IronCat60 said:

Here is a interesting article on the German Navy and Marines (who knew they had a Marine force).

"Marines" in this context were just unemployed sailors who were handed a rifle and thus became really low-grade infantry. The same thing occurred on the Eastern Front with Soviet sailors of the Black Sea Fleet. They were not in any way, shape, or form like the USMC or Royal Marines.

Edited July 11, 2019 by LukeFF

[Frenchy56]

9 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Without knowing what you "jumped into" it is hard to explain what you are seeing. But, given the fact that the Kriegsmarine units that fought in the Netherlands came from training schools it was probably a case of any officer available.

Are there any battalion level battles involving the KM?

I played a bit of "Facade Troops" before "jumping into" the scenario editor as well and looking at the formation, as I always do when something seems fishy.

 

On 7/9/2019 at 7:56 AM, IronCat60 said:

Also there is a new uniform mod that covers the Kriegsmarine Coastal Artillery pressed into infantry service. It is: ezCMBN-Kriegsmarine-Coastal-Artillery. I picked that up at: https://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=8257

Yes, in fact I modified it so it more or less reflects the in-game ranks, like I do with the rest of EZ's German uniform mods.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Frenchy56

[Rinaldi]

10 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

Are there any battalion level battles involving the KM?

One for certain; part of the "Moment in Time" campaign. You command Schiffstamm battalion and generally get asked to dash yourself to pieces counterattacking a dug in few platoons of American airborne. Very difficult scenario. 

[Warts 'n' all]

4 hours ago, Rinaldi said:

One for certain; part of the "Moment in Time" campaign. You command Schiffstamm battalion and generally get asked to dash yourself to pieces counterattacking a dug in few platoons of American airborne. Very difficult scenario. 

I thought that that mission only contained one company.

[Warts 'n' all]

5 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

I played a bit of "Facade Troops" before "jumping into" the scenario editor as well and looking at the formation, as I always do when something seems fishy.

I see what you mean. Although there is only one Kriegsmarine company. That guy is commanding a Kampfgruppe containing Security and SS reinforcements. So you would expect someone of higher rank. 

[Rinaldi]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I thought that that mission only contained one company.

Oh, perhaps so. It's been a very long time since I touched any CMBN campaign so I may be inflating numbers. 

[MG TOW]

2 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said:

I see what you mean. Although there is only one Kriegsmarine company. That guy is commanding a Kampfgruppe containing Security and SS reinforcements. So you would expect someone of higher rank. 

I don't think game design allows battalion commanders from different branches to apply leadership over all formations on map. I tried it in the editor. Actually if I know this I would think it was common knowledge. I just assumed if there is a Kampfgruppe commander somewhere, he is in rear with gear as they say.

[Frenchy56]

Well, a "temporary" (I don't think BF is going to be too bothered with this, they got other things to do) "fix" (maybe the ranks are correct after all, though I doubt it looking at CMRT Soviet ranks) could be to try and switch UI ranks around, but then I don't really have an idea of what goes where. Maybe the ranks would reflect Army ranks?

Edited July 11, 2019 by Frenchy56

[sburke]

3 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

Well, a "temporary" (I don't think BF is going to be too bothered with this, they got other things to do) "fix" (maybe the ranks are correct after all, though I doubt it looking at CMRT Soviet ranks) could be to try and switch UI ranks around, but then I don't really have an idea of what goes where. Maybe the ranks would reflect Army ranks?

This is on probably several wish lists. The ability to cross attach formations and maintain a c&c structure.  As it is all formations are distinct and there isn’t an overarching commander.  You can have 3 battalions but they are 3 independent battalions, not a regiment and you get no colonel to command. 

[Warts 'n' all]

If we are lucky, perhaps the designers of both "Facade Troop" and "The Road to Nijmegen" might shed some light on why they choose the units that they did. In the meantime there is this....

 

[MG TOW]

On 7/1/2019 at 6:50 PM, Frenchy56 said:

Having just purchased CM Normandy's big pack, I jumped in to take a look at the Kriegsmarine formations and I've come to realize that the only commissioned officer present in any formation is the battalion commander, who holds the rank of Ensign. This is very doubtful for me, surely there would be a few more, even for such ragtag formations?

I've done some limited research on Kriegsmarine ranks, and I don't have much of an idea of how they apply to ground forces. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

Actually Kriegsmarine battalion commander in game is Kapitänleutnant by all appearance, not Ensign according to UI.    

[Frenchy56]

10 hours ago, gundolf said:

Actually Kriegsmarine battalion commander in game is Kapitänleutnant by all appearance, not Ensign according to UI.    

Oh Christ, I didn't even think of taking Juju's UI ranks off. Thanks for reminding me to do that. All ranks seem pretty much correct now.

It seems patch v312, which apparently came out after the last version of that mod changed the KM ranks.

Anyway, it made for a nice discussion.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Frenchy56

[Warts 'n' all]

Yeah, I have to admit it didn't occur to me either.

[IronCat60]

Okay, I thought that the Ensign rank was listed as part of the description of the situation. Such as "Ensign Heinz Doofenshmirtz leads the 13th Kriegsmarine Battalion against elements of  the 55th Platypus Division" (in honor of Phineas, Ferb and Perry). Now I feel like Candace trying to convince mom the boys are up to something.

     Ensign Doofenschmirtz