Panzer IV J (late): Number of return rollers

[Rokko]

The Panzer IV J (late) is a new vehicle that came with Market Garden.

It is my understanding that the late versions only had three return rollers, while the ingame model has four.

Of course, there is no reliable or fixed definition for putting vehicles of one Ausführung into early/mid/late/latest category, but maybe someone around here knows for sure if the vehicles that were around in September 44 already had only three return rollers or if those only came from a later production model.

[Nidan1]

The J model of the PzKw IV was produced from June of 1944 until March of 1945. 1758 were produced. Obvious physical changes included the deletion of the auxilliary electric traverse motor, 3 return rollers, steel tired roadwheels and vertical exhaust mufflers. Other Pzkw chassis were used to build Brummbars and Jagdpanzer IV 70 in different factories.

The J model had only three return rollers according to documentation.

[Karabekian]

The J was definitely built with four rollers as well. The modifications listed on wikipedia are a list of modifications that took place during the production run. The individual tanks varied according to factory and available materiel.

But judging by photos the deleting of the fourth road wheel must have taken place late in 1944. Photos earlier seem to have a lot of them with four, while by Wacht am Rhein the ones with three are everywhere. Photos from Arnhem have them with four, IIRC.

[John Kettler]

Rokko,

The IV/J (Late) may be in the game, but I find no record of any destroyed on the DefendingArnhem site, just G and H models. 10th SS Panzer Regiment of SS PD Frundsberg did have IV/J, though there's no explicit detail beyond that level.

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/order_2SS.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[MikeyD]

I was going t jump onto my Jentz PzIV reference to see if he gives an introduction date for the return roller switch... except I forgot I don't own the Jentz book on the PzIV series! An unfortunate lacuna in my grog knowledge.

About no 'Js around Arnhem, perhaps it should be thought of as a general September intro vehicle like Hellcat and not specific to that battle. Not much reference on Crusader AA tanks directly involved either.

[John Kettler]

MikeyD,

Per below, the IV/J entered production in summer of 1944. Return rollers weren't cut to three until December 1944.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_panzer_IV_ausf_J.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[Rokko]

Good find, John, thanks. Now the only question is whether we will first see them in the Bulge game or in a Bagration module!

[Nidan1]

If they have side skirts how would you know anyway? The only other obvious J characteristics would be the mufflers, the lack of the secondary traverse motor, and maybe the lack of pistol ports.

[Rokko]

Well not all have sideskirts, you just have to till you get one that has partially or not at all covered sides. Also, for even later versions there should be wire mesh hull skirts, but I don't know when those appeared, either.

[GhostRider3/3]

The Panzer IV J (late) is a new vehicle that came with Market Garden.

It is my understanding that the late versions only had three return rollers, while the ingame model has four.

Of course, there is no reliable or fixed definition for putting vehicles of one Ausführung into early/mid/late/latest category, but maybe someone around here knows for sure if the vehicles that were around in September 44 already had only three return rollers or if those only came from a later production model.

This site was nice, but I also have many books and video's.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer_IV.php