sonar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just wondering how they'll match up as opposed to the Garand against the K98. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 10 rounds in the clip for longer between reloads and reputedly a slightly faster action (in the hands of an expert) than the k98 is all I've heard to otherwise differentiate it. Ballisticly I think it's roughly the same. An excellent rifle by most accounts. From fps gaming I prefer the open site on the k98 to the key hole on the LE as it grants a wider field of view, making leading shots easier. But that's just in gaming so means absolutely squat. Some real grogs will be along with some proper information when the sun comes up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 According to Wikipedia the effective range for Kar 98k was 500m, while for SMLE it was 503m. Therefore Brits should always try to engage Germans at a range of 501–503m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 10 rounds in the clip for longer between reloads and reputedly a slightly faster action (in the hands of an expert) than the k98 is all I've heard to otherwise differentiate it. Ballisticly I think it's roughly the same. An excellent rifle by most accounts. That's basically it. The technical difference in the action is that the SMLE uses a cock-on-close bolt mechanism, while the Kar. 98 uses a cock-on-open mechanism. In general, cock-on-close is considered to give an easier, smoother bolt action that can be operated somewhat faster in the hands of a trained user. This, combined with the larger magazine, is why the SMLE is generally considered to have a higher effective ROF than the Kar. 98. They're both very accurate rifles, though as I recall the Kar. 98 scores slightly better on benched accuracy tests. This is not something that would be relevant in the hands of an average shooter, though, only potentially coming into play with highly trained shooters firing at long range through scoped sights (i.e., snipers). Even then, the SMLE is more than accurate enough for sniping use, so you're talking about a very slight difference. Overall, I would expect the difference between the two to be very slight and difficult to measure in most situations. Theoretically, if you pit a team with just SMLE against a team with just Kar. 98s, I think the team with SMLEs should come out ahead slightly more often at most engagement ranges and situations. But you'd have to do a lot of runs to get past the statistical noise and actually see the difference. Other factors are going to be more significant 99% of the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The K98 I think you have to move your head when opening and closing the bolt where as the British rifle you could keep your eye on the sights. I maybe be wrong here though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Great site for research comparing old milsurps .. Military Surplus Collectors Forums - Knowledge Library .. but, I'm biased .. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Better sights on the No.4 than the K98. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 According to Wikipedia the effective range for Kar 98k was 500m, while for SMLE it was 503m. Therefore Brits should always try to engage Germans at a range of 501–503m. Those who find it difficult to estimate this 3 meter gap, use feet since the gap grows to approx 10 feet which is cleary a two digit number. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 My wife knocking down 12" steel plates at 600 meters with one of her 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T)'s from her private collection. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Husband drives tanks, wife shoots Lee-Enfields. Sounds logical. I guess your kids are into SMGs or handguns, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Husband drives tanks, wife shoots Lee-Enfields. Sounds logical. I guess your kids are into SMGs or handguns, right? I just choked on my coffee reading this!! Now I just have to clean off my legal documents ha! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Husband drives tanks, wife shoots Lee-Enfields. Sounds logical. I guess your kids are into SMGs or handguns, right? Well, I wish they were, but my kids are 40 and 38, so they're from a generation that doesn't like guns and thanks big government protecting us is a good thing. On the other hand, my generation from the 1950's and 1960's believes in self reliance and personal accountability … So, my wife and I are serious collectors of both modern hand guns, sniper rifles and old milsurps as a hobby (she does Enfields and I do K98k's .. principally Oberndorfs from 1934-1945)... it's an expensive hobby... We own the collectors site I mentioned in the earlier email. We're also both recreational pilots and firearms qualified under IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation), Black Badge, PPC (Police Pistol Combat) and IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association ). We both took our sniper training and we qualified out to 1,000 meters. Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 400 Meters (Range Video) ... click here Milsurp Sniper Rifles at 500 Meters (Range Video) ... click here I'm ex-military (retired) and was commissioned an Officer in the Canadian Armed Forces in 1970 and awarded the Canada Decoration on July 21, 1978. Currently I'm the Vice-Chairman and Managing Partner of a Private Equity Investment Fund. I started out training on M4 Shermans when I was 17 and we were still carrying and qualifying on Sten guns, Bren guns and Browning 9mm pistols until they started replacing them with Centurion tanks, Sterling SMG's and FNC2's. Footnote: My wife doesn't understand why I love CMBN (and previous generation) games, but she does stand over my shoulder and cheer loudly for my side during the video playbacks. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Tell your wife that she looks too young to have a 40 year old kid. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Tell your wife that she looks too young to have a 40 year old kid. Michael I'll be sure to tell this one Michael ... The first one didn't like guns and tanks either ... This one's hung around for over 30 years now, which is a good thing .. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 My wife knocking down 12" steel plates at 600 meters with one of her 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T)'s from her private collection. Regards, Doug please have her train the sharp shooters in the game that cannot seem to be able to do that. BF will not adjust their numbers, really do not know what it takes to get them to review units as to how they perform in the game compared to real life. But you sure do not see many hits from snipers in the game at that range. Pity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 please have her train the sharp shooters in the game that cannot seem to be able to do that. BF will not adjust their numbers, really do not know what it takes to get them to review units as to how they perform in the game compared to real life. But you sure do not see many hits from snipers in the game at that range. Pity To be honest, a FULL WOOD No.4 Mk1(T) is most effective within 300-400 yards. At 600 yards, the hit % drops a lot. Even as an expert shot, I think she only managed 50% hits on a 12" steel plate at 600 yards and it got worse as she fired more rounds. Even at 300 yards, the biggest problem was the barrel heating up after the 2nd or 3rd shot and that caused it to press against the forestock wood, screwing up the barrel bedding and related harmonics. MoA groups opened up a LOT when that happened and accuracy on a 12" plate suffered greatly. A combat rifle built to be a standard infantry weapon doesn't make for the best sniper rifle in it's original manufactured form. It's the main reason you see so many hunting rifles are sporterized by cutting back the forestock, so the barrel "floated" from crown to receiver, to improve accuracy. Even in WW1, the Canadian snipers cut the forestocks back on their issued Ross built sniper rifles, to improve accuracy and offset the effects over heating caused by standard rifle construction. 1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle Serial #223 I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that CMBN modeled sniper rifles are far off, at least on all shots subsequent to the first few. I also understand that they aren't really supposed to be sniper rifles, but rather designated marksman rifles, which aren't the same. Look at the K98k-ZF41 (click here) as a good example of that. In my opinion, the cold bore first shot is the best one that comes out of an unmodified standard sniper rifle contemporary that period. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 To be honest, a FULL WOOD No.4 Mk1(T) is most effective within 300-400 yards. At 600 yards, the hit % drops a lot. Even as an expert shot, I think she only managed 50% hits on a 12" steel plate at 600 yards and it got worse as she fired more rounds. Even at 300 yards, the biggest problem was the barrel heating up after the 2nd or 3rd shot and that caused it to press against the forestock wood, screwing up the barrel bedding and related harmonics. MoA groups opened up a LOT when that happened and accuracy on a 12" plate suffered greatly. A combat rifle built to be a standard infantry weapon doesn't make for the best sniper rifle in it's original manufactured form. It's the main reason you see so many hunting rifles are sporterized by cutting back the forestock, so the barrel "floated" from crown to receiver, to improve accuracy. Even in WW1, the Canadian snipers cut the forestocks back on their issued Ross built sniper rifles, to improve accuracy and offset the effects over heating caused by standard rifle construction. 1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle Serial #223 I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that CMBN modeled sniper rifles are far off, at least on all shots subsequent to the first few. I also understand that they aren't really supposed to be sniper rifles, but rather designated marksman rifles, which aren't the same. Look at the K98k-ZF41 (click here) as a good example of that. In my opinion, the cold bore first shot is the best one that comes out of an unmodified standard sniper rifle contemporary that period. Regards, Doug NICE COMMENTS I would have to look back to see what the test results were, when I tested the game, but they were very poor, and I think I ran most of the test at 400m but BF has pointed out multible times how they are not Snipers in the game, so your comments about how the normal weapon reacts in just a few rounds would be the type of situation which would be what the game represents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 To be honest, a FULL WOOD No.4 Mk1(T) is most effective within 300-400 yards. At 600 yards, the hit % drops a lot. Even as an expert shot, I think she only managed 50% hits on a 12" steel plate at 600 yards and it got worse as she fired more rounds. Even at 300 yards, the biggest problem was the barrel heating up after the 2nd or 3rd shot and that caused it to press against the forestock wood, screwing up the barrel bedding and related harmonics. MoA groups opened up a LOT when that happened and accuracy on a 12" plate suffered greatly. A combat rifle built to be a standard infantry weapon doesn't make for the best sniper rifle in it's original manufactured form. It's the main reason you see so many hunting rifles are sporterized by cutting back the forestock, so the barrel "floated" from crown to receiver, to improve accuracy. Even in WW1, the Canadian snipers cut the forestocks back on their issued Ross built sniper rifles, to improve accuracy and offset the effects over heating caused by standard rifle construction. 1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle Serial #223 I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that CMBN modeled sniper rifles are far off, at least on all shots subsequent to the first few. I also understand that they aren't really supposed to be sniper rifles, but rather designated marksman rifles, which aren't the same. Look at the K98k-ZF41 (click here) as a good example of that. In my opinion, the cold bore first shot is the best one that comes out of an unmodified standard sniper rifle contemporary that period. Regards, Doug If I ever get to Canada I am going to look you up just to have touch of those bad boys 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 According to Wikipedia the effective range for Kar 98k was 500m, while for SMLE it was 503m. Therefore Brits should always try to engage Germans at a range of 501–503m. I lol'd, good one. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If I ever get to Canada I am going to look you up just to have touch of those bad boys Ditto. Oh mate, how would I love to fire a Lee-Enfield. It's my fetish weapon of ww2. I got to fire a MP38 and a Tommy gun some time ago, but century-old bolt action rifles do have something special. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I collect and live fire WWII rifles as well. I seem to fire both my k98 and 03 better than I do the LE but conversely, one of my good buddies is much better on the LE than any of the other bolt actions. Go figure. The peep sight has a lot to do with that. Here's my British made 1942. Some others... I sold this M1 carbine and am looking to replace it with a more period correct version. Also pictured, M1 Garand, 1936 made, rebarreled and restocked in 1944 Springfield Model 1903. Thompson .45. I've just applied for an ATF tax stamp to allow me to shorten the barrel and make it a 10.5" giving it the proper appearance for a WWII Tommygun. Can't wait to get started on that project! Top to bottom, Soviet Mosin Nagant 91/30 dated 1943, British No. 4 Mk. I dated 1942, German k98 dated 1940, Japanese Arisaka Type 38 made between 1938-1940 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Interesting.. your No.4 Mk1 has the early war "rounded" cocking handle... a bit rare .. any EFD markings on the cocking piece? Nice collection ... Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hmmm, I love hearing that mine may be a rare version! I'm not as up on the Lee Enfields as other weapons. I got a great deal on this one too when I bought it. The left side rear band has a simple "M" (which marks that it was made in England, I believe it's Maltby?), the date 1942, and the serial number which is either a R or K (really hard to tell) followed by the five digit number. Something like 103968. I don't have it in front of me but can check when I get home. The cocking handle, or bolt handle as we call it, has on the rear of the handle shaft the same serial number and then a small arrow pointing at the ball on the end. The barrel also has the last four digits from the serial and then is marked "st vb alm" or something like that. I can also check it again when I get home. If you like or need better identifying pictures I can easily take them. I appreciate your response and knowledge on these! Please let me know what you can discern! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Here's a link that will help with official markings. It's a site provided by one of our moderators with some good information to bookmark for the future. Lee Enfield Rifle Markings (click here) The "M" on the butt tang with the serial number most likely means it was made by R.O.F. Maltby, Yorkshire Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks! Great site and great info there. So nothing unusual then about my rifle? Just a different bolt or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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