TacAI IQ Redux...

[76mm]

OK, I've played a few more games now and have noted more TacAI behavior that I can't figure out, although perhaps some of it is a user-interface (or user?) issue. Note that this post contains some mild SPOILERS about the "Find the Guns" scenario (or whatever it is called):

1) I ordered one of the US infantry teams to advance along a hedgerow with the "Hunt" command. The team had suffered a casualty, so there were only two members left. At one point, they stopped advancing and did a very peculiar thing: each of the two team members would run along the hedgerow about fifty meters, turn around, and run back the opposite direction. The two team members were kind of synchronized in that that would pass each other in the center, reach the opposite ends and turn around at about the same time, and run back. This went on for probably four turns of five turns, during which time I ensured that there were no remaining waypoints, but that did not stop their peculiar activities. Any idea what what going on here?

2) Same scenanio; an infantry squad was advancing along a hedgerow and walked in front of a bunker built into the hedgerow; two sections were wiped out, the third stopped right on the side of the bunker. The remaining section could not or would not destroy the bunker with grenades, demo charges, etc. When I ordered the section to target the bunker, it simply fired its rifles at it (a range of about 2 meters). After several turns of this, I gave up trying to get the section to do anything about the bunker. I would have thought that one of the members would toss a grenade through the bunker's firing slit, which was right next to them?

3) Finally, same scenario, one of the MMGs was knocked out, but it had plenty of ammo left. I moved the team with the knocked out MMG next to the rermaining MMG, which had been firing away and which was now out of ammo. I could not for the life of me get the functioning MMG team to pick up the ammo from the team with the knocked out MMG.

I'm trying to enjoy the game, and often do, but stuff like this (especially 1 and 2) are real immersion-killers for me. Am I doing something wrong, or what?

[womble]

...only two members left. At one point, they stopped advancing and did a very peculiar thing: each of the two team members would run along the hedgerow about fifty meters, turn around, and run back the opposite direction. The two team members were kind of synchronized in that that would pass each other in the center, reach the opposite ends and turn around at about the same time, and run back.

I've seen teams get stuck on terrain in similar ways. I think it's a little buglet. Giving them a new waypoint that's 'easy' to path to will usually get them to rally.

3) Finally, same scenario, one of the MMGs was knocked out, but it had plenty of ammo left. I moved the team with the knocked out MMG next to the rermaining MMG, which had been firing away and which was now out of ammo. I could not for the life of me get the functioning MMG team to pick up the ammo from the team with the knocked out MMG.

I don't know the scenario, but I'm guessing they're in the same (4th) platoon, since there are only two and you're talking about US infantry. That being the case, I think it may be a clash of expectations and reality. Ammo sharing is only done a bit at a time; one team may not 'give' another their ammo until it's 'needed', so the working team won't 'pick up' the ammo from the team with no weapon, but the number of rounds on the team with no weapon should go down, and the working MG should keep firing, even once the working MG's team has no ammo left.

If it's not a standard US infantry company arrangement, then it may be that the two teams are not eligible to share, coming either from separate platoons, or if they're Company MGs, separate Sections within the MG platoon.

[Wodin]

@76mm..this isn't directed at you or any sort of personnel attack..just me posting a thought that i had whilst reading your thread.

Funny how people are different. I honestly haven't noticed anything glaringly wrong. It seems to me some gamers actively look out for AI flaws or aspects of a game that seem broken\wrong. Myself, if the game has game breaking issues or say the AI is an absolute walk over I will have something to say. As far as CMBN goes I've payed a few games now and I haven't noticed anything that will effect my enjoyment. The odd AI glitch here and there, but I just put it down to shell shock and certainly not bad enough to sully my enjoyment.

Not getting at the OP here by the way. I just feel sometimes if people except the limitations of games and AI's and use their imgination to gloss over said limitations they'd enjoy the games much better. CMBN is up there as one of the best with Panther games Battles for the Bulge.

Anyway like I said not trying to get at the OP here just airing of a thought I had whilst reading it.

[womble]

@76mm..this isn't directed at you or any sort of personnel attack..just me posting a thought that i had whilst reading your thread.

Funny how people are different. I honestly haven't noticed anything glaringly wrong. It seems to me some gamers actively look out for AI flaws or aspects of a game that seem broken\wrong. Myself, if the game has game breaking issues or say the AI is an absolute walk over I will have something to say. As far as CMBN goes I've payed a few games now and I haven't noticed anything that will effect my enjoyment. The odd AI glitch here and there, but I just put it down to shell shock and certainly not bad enough to sully my enjoyment.

Not getting at the OP here by the way. I just feel sometimes if people except the limitations of games and AI's and use their imgination to gloss over said limitations they'd enjoy the games much better. CMBN is up there as one of the best with Panther games Battles for the Bulge.

Anyway like I said not trying to get at the OP here just airing of a thought I had whilst reading it.

I think it comes down to gamer style. I certainly try and wring the best performance I can out of the game engine, which means trying very hard to understand all the wrinkles so that any mistakes are tactical mistakes rather than game engine artefacts. If I tell some troops to run A-C (meaning go via B, cos that looks like the way they will go) and they run via D instead because the game engine doesn't work how I thought, and pTruppen die because of it, I feel frustrated. And next time I'll give them a waypoint at B. If I don't understand why something happened that I thought was a bit daft, I'll either 'speriment or ask so next time I know how to avoid my pTruppen being tactically naive.

So if I see a feature (like ammo sharing) that doesn't work how I expect, I'll come here looking for an answer.

Also, if there's something consistently 'wrong', I personally like to flag it up so BFC can fix it (if possible, and if it actually is wrong, rather than just me being dense/a design decision) and I avoid future "Gah!" moments.

[Pak40]

1. Not positive about this but I have a theory. One of the two guys is running slower either because he's injured or is carrying heavier equipment. The other runs ahead and the pathing AI realizes that he's left his buddy behind and then goes back for him.

2. Another theory:Many people have run into this issue, myself included. I think most people tend to think that the closer we get our squads to the pillbox, then the more likely they should use their grenades and satchel charges. However, it's quite possible that the TacAI will not toss a grenade because the explosion could in fact harm themselves. Maybe try moving the unit about 20m away? It's worth a shot.

3) First, make sure the two MMGs are in the same platoon. If not, then that's problem #1. Second, give the empty MG a target command (area fire if not a real unit). Make sure the knocked out MG is right on top of the empty one and leave him there for a while. If you still don't see any transfer of round then I'm stumped.

[womble]

...it's quite possible that the TacAI will not toss a grenade because the explosion could in fact harm themselves.

Don't think this is right. AIUI (from Shock Force forum discussions on MOUT) squads are immune to the explosions from their own hand grenades. This is because, IIRC, modelling grenade use with 100% fidelity isn't possible in the abstracted building environment, so grenade burst needs to be abstracted a bit too.

[76mm]

As far as CMBN goes I've payed a few games now and I haven't noticed anything that will effect my enjoyment. The odd AI glitch here and there, but I just put it down to shell shock and certainly not bad enough to sully my enjoyment...I just feel sometimes if people except the limitations of games and AI's and use their imgination to gloss over said limitations they'd enjoy the games much better.

OK, fair enough, but for me when something pretty basic should be possible in real life and it can't be done in the game, I get frustrated. Things like having soldiers sitting right next to a bunker with no apparent means of doing any harm to the bunker, for instance, or soldiers doing strange relay-races instead of advancing stealthily along a hedgerow.

I want to enjoy this game, so at least I'm trying to clarify if I'm doing something wrong. The ammo share mechanism is a little weird, but that is certainly no big deal. But for me the jury is still out as to whether the various infidelities/niggles are outweighed by the cool stuff in the game.

[LongLeftFlank]

Yes, not to ignore a serious bug or anything, but my instant reaction on reading the OP is if you're depending on that 2 man fragment of a depleted unit to accomplish any combat objective, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel! (We've all been there!)

[76mm]

Yes, not to ignore a serious bug or anything, but my instant reaction on reading the OP is if you're depending on that 2 man fragment of a depleted unit to accomplish any combat objective, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel! (We've all been there!)

Note sure if you've played this scenario, but you don't exactly have a lot to work with...

Moreover, the point is not my flawed tactics (I'm really just playing to figure out how the game works at this point), but I'm trying to figure out how to do things, which is harder when units do weird stuff like this.

[Wego McPbem]

Has anyone else had the bug with infantry mounting a halftrack where a couple of the squad don't get in but instead end up running off across the map in a random direction? Really annoying because it leaves you unable to move the halftrack or give orders to the squad inside it. Had it happen a few times now, it seems to happen if they're in the process of mounting at the end of a wego turn.

[LongLeftFlank]

Wow, that would make issuing Target orders to that squad.... interesting