slysniper Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Here is a interesting one for you. Until we get into tank battles this might not show up much but I did a test, running 5 shermans against 5 Pz4's , both sides with Vet. commanders with 0 modifiers at 600 yards apart. The results were the germans were losing 5 tanks to the the allies 2 or 3 in general then I changed the German tank commanders to the highest level, I think that is crack and the +2 modifier. did the same duel for a series and the americans were losing the battle 5 tanks to 2 of the Germans That is a massive change because of the commander only change, I can promise you, that type of effect was not in the old game system to that type of change. I thought it was cool they actually was taking the inferior tank and winning. basically it has to be giving them deadlier and more precise locations of shots to adcheive that, maybe faster times between shots also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 What if you increase the distance to 1000 meters? Are PzIVs better when tanks are further apart? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Are PzIVs better when tanks are further apart? Yes they are. then I changed the German tank commanders to the highest level, I think that is crack and the +2 modifier. Elite is the highest exp. level. How many iterations did you run for each test? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Yes they are. here is a explanation from charles himself about the comparison between panzer IV and the shermans. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1239443&postcount=303 with this data and my own experiences i doubt that the panzer IV`s have better chances when further away. they are then even less capable of penetrating the glacis plate of the sherman. i`ve even seen in one of my pbems that a shot from a 500m distant panther bounced of from a shermans glacis. but this was due to the fact that the sherman was standing on a very steep edge of a hill and so the steepness of the hill added to the steepness of the glacis plate angle. this new damage model is really great and much more sophisticated than the old cm1 ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 then I changed the German tank commanders to the highest level, I think that is crack and the +2 modifier. That is a massive change because of the commander only change the change of experience like crack and elite etc. affect not only the commander but the whole crew i think. so the loader would load faster... the gunner would spot, aim and shoot faster and more accurate etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 with this data and my own experiences i doubt that the panzer IV`s have better chances when further away. they are then even less capable of penetrating the glacis plate of the sherman. Test it and you may be surprised. At around 1000m the Sherman's 75mm M3 gun has lost enough velocity that it can no longer penetrate the Pz IV's 80mm hull armor, at least not consistently. In the same thread you linked to one of the beta testers wrote these comments: I can speak to range. Having played and tested the Pz IV against the Sherman (75, not the 76) the magic range band you are looking for is 900m+. In another QB we tried I was engaging head to head at 500-700 and the Pz IV still came out on the bottom. At 900m+ though the equation changes drastically. Here in tests I ran the Pz Iv was winning 8 out of 10 times as it superior gun, when compared to the 75, finally shines through and its armour can take a lot more hits. As will be shown...when using the Pz IV, either stand well off and let the gun do the work OR be smart on how you manoeuvre. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 thats interesting stuff...will test this out... thanks for the hint... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Yes they are. Elite is the highest exp. level. How many iterations did you run for each test? I only ran each situation 7 times, normally I set up 10 test lanes and run ten times, easy way to see a percentage of 100 doing that. But really, I just run until I see a consistant result, if I see consistant different results, then I run the test until I feel I see the results inconsistancy repeating itself. As for this little test, I was after the commander effects , not which tank was proving to be better, the test showed that in a quick and precise manor. As for the armor, that was not suprising to me, I also know that changing distances will swing the advantage. had not tested to see what ranges. But from test I did back on CMX1, the advantages seem to be more pronouced now than before. But my feelings on that is because the tanks actually hit what they are shooting at now, where as the old system multible miss problem from two non moving platforms did not help to get good results. I hated watchinghg one tank miss 3 easy shots in a row and others hit first shot, exspecially when setting were the same and ranges were easy distances. The CMX2 system is much better, just adding that for those out there that think not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 the change of experience like crack and elite etc. affect not only the commander but the whole crew i think. so the loader would load faster... the gunner would spot, aim and shoot faster and more accurate etc. THIS is important: you did not change just one crewmember, you changed the entire crew. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Funny, I did a couple of tests @ 2000m without platoon commanders, regular crews, no modifiers. Shermans generally spotted the Pz.IV's first and had superior accuracy compared to the Pz.IV's. The Shermans were hitting the Pz.IV's with the second or third shot, while the Pz.IV's needed at last 3 shots to hit anything. After that the Pz.IV's showed a more consistent accuracy though and came out with 3-4 losses as opposed to 5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So... does that reflect reality in Normandy era US tank gunnery, or...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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