Bimmer Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Disappointingly, it appears that no adjustment has been made to the firing times for on-board mortars that are in direct voice and visual communication range with the spotter. Thus the situation remains that a mortar that can "direct" fire in under a minute (fire with a Target order rather than using the indirect fire interface) still takes several minutes to put rounds downrange when employing a spotter only a few feet away when using "indirect" fire. The delays in artillery called through the comms net are perfectly understandable, but when spotter and tubes are in direct voice and visual communication, they seem excessive. I know this has been tossed around on the forum; anyone in the know want to share their thoughts on possible adjustments in future patches? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah, I'm definitely on the bandwagon for this change. I also remember that a beta tester said they raised this on the beta forums, so BFC should be aware. I guess there's three possibilities: 1) BFC has listened to the issue, but decided change is not necessary and thinks things are best left the way they are. 2) BFC has listened to the issue, but there is a game engine issue that makes this change too difficult to implement. 3) BFC has listened to the issue, and has put this change "on the list." However, it wasn't high enough priority to make it into 1.01; hopefully we'll see it in a future patch. I'd love to hear which of the above is what's going on "behind the screen..." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'll third that suggestion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah, I'm definitely on the bandwagon for this change. I also remember that a beta tester said they raised this on the beta forums, so BFC should be aware. I guess there's three possibilities: 1) BFC has listened to the issue, but decided change is not necessary and thinks things are best left the way they are. 2) BFC has listened to the issue, but there is a game engine issue that makes this change too difficult to implement. 3) BFC has listened to the issue, and has put this change "on the list." However, it wasn't high enough priority to make it into 1.01; hopefully we'll see it in a future patch. I'd love to hear which of the above is what's going on "behind the screen..." Well said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Pretty much what I figured. Here's hoping it's on the list for the next patch (this doesn't mean I'd be averse to hearing a definitive yay or nay from the Powers That Be). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Here's hoping it's on the list for the next patch Same. (additional words to meet min.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Since the mortar crew can't see the target wouldn't it take substantially longer to aim the weapon? Think about it. Could you make an accurate rifle shot faster if your eyes were open and using the sights or with your eyes closed and someone standing next to you telling you where to aim? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's the communication that is faster, not the physical aiming of the weapon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sure, its going to take longer to get on target indirect vs. direct, but that should be a function of communication delay - in either instance, there has to be a distance estimation and calculation, then correction based upon feedback, whether from a spotter or direct observation. The communication delay is eliminated with direct fire. It just seems to reason that when the person calling the shots doesn't have to go through a radio network to get the support, the communication delay should be much shorter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Since the mortar crew can't see the target wouldn't it take substantially longer to aim the weapon? Think about it. Could you hit shoot a rifle faster if your eyes were open and using the sights or with your eyes closed and someone telling where to aim? Absolutely. But I think you misunderstood the issue at hand, and the change that some of us are advocating for. Right now, there are only two time to FFE routines for on-map mortars: 1) Direct Lay, where the mortar team itself can see the target area through the sight mounted on the mortar. Time to FFE in this situation very quick; less than a 1-minute WEGO turn if the mortar is already deployed and pointed in the general direction of the target area. and 2) Indirect, where the mortar does not have LOS to the target area and targeting information is relayed from a Spotter some distance from the mortar. Right now, it doesn't matter whether the Spotter is 5 meters from the mortar tube and communicating by loud whisper or 500 meters away, and communicating via a (WWII era, vacuum tube and crystal, and probably pretty unreliable) radio relay, time to FFE for this type of support is the same -- about 4 minutes at Iron level, IIRC. What we are advocating for is an option (1.5), which would be somewhere in-between options (1) and (2) above, for situations where the Spotter is close enough to communicate with the mortar team via voice, and so can relay targeting info more quickly and easily. In addition, since the range and bearing from the tube to the target is more or less the same as it is from observer to the target, this type of setup also means there is no need to reference map coordinates or do trig calculations to determine the range and bearing -- the observer can just estimate the range and bearing from his own position, and adjust to the mortar's position by rule of thumb. So, if time to FFE in (1) Direct Lay is less than a minute, and time to FFE in (2) Radio Relay 4 minutes, maybe time to for FFE for (1.5) Voice Relay is 2.5 minutes. Or 3 minutes. Er sumfink. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Absolutely. You don't really need to know anything about WWII and the weaponry to realise that the discrepancy between direct firing times and indirect (with a spotter nearby) is unrealistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 OK. I'm with you now. You want something faster than indirect with map coordinates, but slower than direct fire. I can see that. I'm assuming the mortar would need LOS to the FO and have to be within yelling distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 OK. I'm with you now. You want something faster than indirect with map coordinates, but slower than direct fire. I can see that. I'm assuming the mortar would need LOS to the FO and have to be within yelling distance. Yep; exactly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackHand Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I experienced this problem last night in the Razorback Ridge battle and yes, it was quite frustrating. I was yelling at that g*dd*mn mortar team in my computer room, just as I'd have been yelling at them on the battlefield . . . and they'd have heard me because they were only 25 g*dd*mn yards away from my HQ spotter (which is me, in the CM world). If I could've walked up to the mortar, smacked the NCO in the helmet and dialed the damned thing in myself, I would've. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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