Mortars & Arty

[para]

I called in some Mortar and arty fire on a positions around 200m away. My Mortar teams were within meters of the the officer and in command.

The officer had visual on the targets yet the rounds fell far too short, so i adjusted them and then they fell far too long.

The same thing happened with the arty it was not even close to the designated target area.

Am i doing something wrong?

[Blackcat]

Probably not, sh!t happens, but there do seem to be some hidden mechanics in the game that help things along.

For example, when I have had mortar or 105mm artillery barrages go astray it does sem to have been when my spotting unti has a very limited LOS to the enemy position. Sometimes this has been a grey line, and sometimes whilst I have had a clear, bright, blue it is to a limited area, that is to say when the target line snaps to the action point it snaps to a point that my spotter cannot see. In such crcumstances the barrage sometimes arrives on target and sometimes it don't.

On the other hand when I gave a nice, clear view of the target area, and in particular to the end of the target line I have never had a barrage go astray.

I have seen some people mention that barrages go wrong when the spotter cannot see where the spotting rounds land. That has not been my experience. I don't say they are wrong but I am sure I have had spotting rounds fall where the spotter had no LOS but as long as he had a god loine to the target the FFE fell in correct place.

The one exception to the seeing the end of the target line "rule" seems to be mortars firing just over the crest/hedge, but even then the seem to go wrong if I dont have a good LOS to my side of the crest/hedge.

That is just my experience, don't know if it helps.

Oh, one other thing the final FFE point seems to have no relationship to where the last spotting round landed. Yesterday I was desperately trying to take out a very pesky ATG, to which I could not get a clear LOS from any spotter. I had three succesive barrages miss. In the last one the final spotting found landed anout 100 metres due west, the FFE came in about 150 metres to the Nort East.

[YankeeDog]

Can't say for sure what's going on here without more details, but one thing to be aware of is that your spotter needs to be able to see the last spotting round come in, as well as have LOS to the targeting point.

So be very careful about calling arty in situations where your spotter has a "keyhole" LOS to the target point, but can't see much of the surrounding area. This can be a recipe for disaster.

[akd]

I called in some Mortar and arty fire on a positions around 200m away. My Mortar teams were within meters of the the officer and in command.

The officer had visual on the targets yet the rounds fell far too short, so i adjusted them and then they fell far too long.

The same thing happened with the arty it was not even close to the designated target area.

Am i doing something wrong?

"Adjust mission" is solely used for changing to an entirely new target. Spotting and correction happens automatically between the the spotter and the firing unit, and the first few spotting rounds will generally be off target (that's how spotting works). By selecting adjust mission, you are just forcing the spotting cycle to start over again.

[Baneman]

... but one thing to be aware of is that your spotter needs to be able to see the last spotting round come in, as well as have LOS to the targeting point.

...

And I'm still trying to find an answer to the question "How do we, the player, know if the spotter can or can't see the spotting rounds ( any of them ) ?"

If anyone knows this, please tell me, thanks.

[MengJiao]

And I'm still trying to find an answer to the question "How do we, the player, know if the spotter can or can't see the spotting rounds ( any of them ) ?"

If anyone knows this, please tell me, thanks.

Most recently, I solved almost all of my mortar problems by leaving the Company or Battalion CO in the mortar area. The poor Germans from Turkestan with serious digestive problems took quite a beating BUT due to some kind of command break down (I assume the COs were too far from their Platoon commanders) everybody in the front line was too nervous to close in and finish off the poor Khazaks. I suspect the poor Khazaks weren't keeping up much fire on the spotters, but I'm really not sure why I had fewer mortar problems than usual.

[stikkypixie]

And I'm still trying to find an answer to the question "How do we, the player, know if the spotter can or can't see the spotting rounds ( any of them ) ?"

If anyone knows this, please tell me, thanks.

Select target tool, check whether there is LOS to the spot where the spotting round landed? It is important to check not only whether the spotter can see the target you want to hit, but also make sure he has a clear line of sight to the surrounding area. Dropping arty is an art.

[gunnergoz]

And I'm still trying to find an answer to the question "How do we, the player, know if the spotter can or can't see the spotting rounds ( any of them ) ?"

If anyone knows this, please tell me, thanks.

We can't and that is one of the reasons that BFC is looking into the issue. If the FO in fact can't see the fall of the spotting rounds, why would he call for fire for effect instead of calling check fire?

[YankeeDog]

And I'm still trying to find an answer to the question "How do we, the player, know if the spotter can or can't see the spotting rounds ( any of them ) ?"

If anyone knows this, please tell me, thanks.

A reasonable question, and unfortunately one I do not have an answer to.

In general, I try to make sure (a) that my spotter has good LOS not only to the specific target point, but also can see most of a broader area at least 100m radius, and ideally 200m radius from the target point, and ( that the spotter is not taking any significant amount of fire or otherwise suppressed.

I can't remember an incident where I've been able to achieve both of the above, and not have my my arty strike come in on target (drawing on CMSF experience here too, esp. playing Red ). At times when the spotter's LOS is marginal, and/or the spotter is taking incoming fire, I've definitely had things go pear-shaped.

But I'll freely admit I don't know the exact mechanics of what is going on, and I don't know any way of determining for certain whether the spotter has registered the last spotting round, or whether or not a strike is going to come in on target, at the time the last spotting round falls and you hear the "Fire For Effect" sound file.

Probably realistic. But also potentially frustrating.

[para]

Some interesting information and some stuff i never knew..I shall see what happens in future and report on whether or not my arty n mortar fire improves...Thanks all

[Blackcat]

... In general, I try to make sure (a) that my spotter has good LOS not only to the specific target point, but also can see most of a broader area at least 100m radius, and ideally 200m radius from the target point...

Wow, thats quite a big order, 100m spotting radius let alone 200m ain't easy to get on a Normandy map. In fact against a well sited opponent I am not sure it could ever be done. - there is almost always going to be some terrain feature that will block LOS somewhere in that size circle.

I agree with your basic point, but I think you are being too conservative with the clear LOS radius. I certainly get most of mine on target without having that degree of view.

[YankeeDog]

Wow, thats quite a big order, 100m spotting radius let alone 200m ain't easy to get on a Normandy map. In fact against a well sited opponent I am not sure it could ever be done. - there is almost always going to be some terrain feature that will block LOS somewhere in that size circle.

I agree with your basic point, but I think you are being too conservative with the clear LOS radius. I certainly get most of mine on target without having that degree of view.

Note I said most, not all. Getting a spotter in a place where he can see absolutely everything in a 100m radius circle would indeed be extremely difficult, especially in bocage country. Getting him in a position where he can see 60-70% of the ground in same circle is more possible.

And I'm more willing to break my own rule with smaller, more responsive assets. If 60mm or 81mm mortars go off target, it's usually not catastrophic. 155mm in the wrong place can really ruin your day.