at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi all, Do I understand right that CM:BN doesn't offer data modding? When i played the Demo, beeing CC player and modder, i could see alot of mistakes in weapons and teams for Normandy time. Like 352.ID units having MP.43 and all MGs beeing Mg.42 . US units having M4A3 with landing units . Scout team with 3 MP.40 is funny as well, where did they get those SMGs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 You can design and build your in scenarios in the game using the editor. This allows you to build and map and choose what units are in your scenario. Withing the broad constraints of the TOE you can choose what type of vehcile, weapons etc you can use within the selected timescale of your scenario. CMBN covers the main US and German forces facing them June to August. The scenarios in the demo are mostly set around the July/August period. So yeah M4A3 can be in the scenarios. Likewise German MG42s. You can choose how many of these weapons are in each unit by tweaking the options in the editor. It is possible to have a mix of MG42s and MG34s or have all MG34s or have all MG42s - that mix to some extant can be chosen by the scenario designer. Not sure about what you mean with the scout teams having MP40s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 ...i could see alot of mistakes in weapons and teams for Normandy time... I'd be reeeeal careful about the parameters and certainty of statements like that. Given the amount of research BFC have done over the more-than-a-decade they've been producing WW2 games, and the level of detail provided, there's a pretty high chance that any error lies either in an assumption you've made about the circumstances or in your own research. Admittedly, there are some decisions that've been made for development reasons, like the exclusion of some unit types which were present but in insignificant numbers (but may be included in a later module). Those aren't 'mistakes' though. Just a word to the wise. If you've got good sources and are actually correct, in the context, "the management" are big enough boys to admit it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Can anyone enlighten me, what is, "CC"? Should I be impressed that some one is a "CC player and modder"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 CC=Close Combat? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 CC=Close Combat? Ah, in that case the answer to my second question is, probably, "No". Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 The scenarios in the demo are mostly set around the July/August period. So yeah M4A3 can be in the scenarios. The first battle is dated June 8th. M4A3 weren't there that time. Likewise German MG42s. unlike shown in SPR, MG.42 wasn't the main MG for the German IDs stated at the Beach. It is possible to have a mix of MG42s and MG34s or have all MG34s or have all MG42s - that mix to some extant can be chosen by the scenario designer. I will definetely check the editor but as I mention MG.34/42 was the main MG of the German units in Normandy. Mg.116(f) was more common for instance. Not sure about what you mean with the scout teams having MP40s? Where would they get 3 MP? Take from NCO? I'd be reeeeal careful about the parameters and certainty of statements like that. Given the amount of research BFC have done over the more-than-a-decade they've been producing WW2 games, and the level of detail provided, there's a pretty high chance that any error lies either in an assumption you've made about the circumstances or in your own research. Iam carefull, Iam, f.e. i don't state that 352.ID should not have RpzB although there are no proves in tables they had. Well, no proves they didn't anyway. Anyway, I've been playing CM H2H since the first one and I do know that the data could be better in all versions, and I do know that it wasn't moddable before - that's why i ask about modding possibilities in BN. Admittedly, there are some decisions that've been made for development reasons, like the exclusion of some unit types which were present but in insignificant numbers (but may be included in a later module). Those aren't 'mistakes' though. if 352.ID units have MP.43 in BN that's a mistake. If 4th ID has M4A3 as support that's a mistake. I don't argue about amount of ammo for schiessbecher f.e. as it could vary although standard load was much higher for both HE and HEAT. They even had special bandolier for that. Just a word to the wise. If you've got good sources and are actually correct, in the context, "the management" are big enough boys to admit it. That's why my first question was about modding as I prefer to fix it myself instead of waitng "big enough boys to admit it" . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Can anyone enlighten me, what is, "CC"? Close Combat - for more info try www.closecombatseries.net Should I be impressed that some one is a "CC player and modder"? probably you should not be impressed, but you might be interested in the details CC has in weapons and teams composition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Close Combat is a pretty good game, Blackcat, and I wouldn't necessarily jump to any conclusions about people who play it. I've played it and enjoyed it. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7thGalaxy Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 You can't, to my knowledge, mod OOBs, models, or game mechanics although you can change textures, sounds etc. Do you have sources for your claims? BF are extremely thorough in their research, and tbh, unless you back up your claims I'll take their research over your opinions, will all due respect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 You can't, to my knowledge, mod OOBs, models, or game mechanics although you can change textures, sounds etc. Yes, figured and that doesn't sound good. Well, CC wasn't made moddable either but the community managed to develop tools to unlock and change the data - which is the most important part of each wargame. Textures and sounds are just a frame that doesn't affect gameplay . Do you have sources for your claims? BF are extremely thorough in their research, and tbh, unless you back up your claims I'll take their research over your opinions, will all due respect. Wich claims - about Mp.43 with 352.ID or M4A3 for Utah beach or MG.42 in Normandy? Yes, I have some . I even have Meldungs for June 1st for most of the German Normandy units from Utah to Sword. And training manuals for some units as well, like 12.SS-PzD and 17.SS-PzGD - and i can tell that they were trained to split different way than implemented in BN - but it doesn't make game worse . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Close Combat is a pretty good game, Blackcat, and I wouldn't necessarily jump to any conclusions about people who play it. I've played it and enjoyed it. :-) If you play CC, than you plrobably know some mods like Winter War, Stalingrad, Utah, GJS:TRSM which iam either creator or was part of a team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Some of the most informative research data was used in development of these games was posted long ago by Bullethead. You've discovered a little-known WW2 tank-grog thing here that BTS, in its search for the ultimate in realism, has modeled in CM. I've been waiting to see if anybody else noticed this. Most people assume that the M in US vehicle designations means "Model". Thus, the Medium Tank M4 Sherman would be the "Model #4" Medium tank. This is incorrect. The M actually stands for "Mortality" and the number represents the life expectancy of the vehicle in minutes. Thus, Shermans were rated officially at 4 minutes of survival in a combat situation, which is reflected accurately in CM by having them die on turn 4. After the Sherman had been in production for some time and combat experience had been gained, it was noticed in many cases, particularly for the earlier production runs of Shermans, that the official Mortality rating was a bit optimistic. Thus, the designation was changed to reflect the new data. This involved appending the letter A and another number to the M4 designation, the A standing for "Actually" and the new number being the revised Mortality rating. For example, the M4A2 had a combat-proven life expectancy of "Actually 2" minutes. Later on, the designation system got even more accurate by appending a number in parentheses and the letter W. Despite the widely held conviction that the parenthetical number was the caliber of the gun, what these symbols really meant was that the tank had a 75% or 76% chance of going WHOOSH in a big fireball when penetrated. However, some models of Sherman were so inflammable that calcualtions showed they had a 105% chance of brewing up, so they just left it at that and didn't bother with the W, because they were going to WHOOSH regardless. Towards the end of the war, some Shermans gained an E and another number in their designations. The E meant "Extra Cost" and the number was a designator for the manufacturer, to ensure that company got extra money for making the tank. CM accurately reflects this by making these types of Shermans cost more to buy in DYO. Thus, the M4A3E8(76)W designation meant a tank with an official Mortality of 4 minutes, Actually 3 minutes, cost Extra, and had a 76% chance of going WHOOSH. Hope this helps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
at_dima Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hahaha, good one Although the first Sherman was M4A1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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