Trouble with third mission of first tutorial campaign

[tiohn]

I've spent a couple of hours now trying to follow the tutorial for the third scenario in the first tutorial campaign. I move my mortar, machine gun, and HQ up to the Base of Fire objective and deploy. My problem is that I can't get LOS to anything on Hill 2014 from this base of fire. I might get lucky and one of the other squads will get LOS to a unit on the hill, but I'll move my HQ and MG all over the place and just cannot get LOS. I've been shuffling these units around the hill that my base of fire is on, but I just can't get a target. This is frustrating.

Also, do I need the HQ to spot for my mortar if I can get LOS for the mortar team?

[Migo441]

You do not need the HQ to spot if your mortar can get LOS.

I think there are spots on or near the highlighted spot which may NOT grant LOS, but you should be able to get LOS without too much fuss.

Are you neglecting to deploy the mortar and MG?

[tiohn]

I get my MG and mortar to the highlighted spots and am deploying them, but just can't spot anything. I'll try it again later when I'm less frustrated.

[ChrisND]

It appears that a last minute tweak before the release to how trees affect LOS has made it more difficult for the Base of Fire to see certain parts of the trench system. However, your units can still see much of it, and if you can't then move them a bit to try for a better vantage point.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Yeah, I had trouble getting LOS to the relevant parts of the hill from that position. Some places did, some did not. That area doesn't give as good a view as it first seemed.

Just position your MG and HQ until you find a spot that works for you. Use the MkI Eyeball to get some sense of the best places.

It does not have to be exactly at or even remotely near the place the scenario suggests.

For mortars it is less of an issue unless you want to DF with it.

[Cymru]

Yeah, I had trouble getting LOS to the relevant parts of the hill from that position. Some places did, some did not. That area doesn't give as good a view as it first seemed.

Just position your MG and HQ until you find a spot that works for you. Use the MkI Eyeball to get some sense of the best places.

It does not have to be exactly at or even remotely near the place the scenario suggests.

For mortars it is less of an issue unless you want to DF with it.

It was this scenario that led me to ask about including contour lines. I spent almost half the game finding the one spot that allowed me to use both the mortar and MG against the hilltop

[Migo441]

OK, so you have the heavy weapons deployed. Hmmmnn.... You say "LOS to a unit". I don't know if it might be this simple, but the other thing is you don't necessarily need LOS specifically TO an enemy unit in order to provide suppressive fire.

So don't worry too much if you can't target an enemy counter. Start hosing down the trench line at a point near where the enemy counters are displayed. The enemy may move around and the contact may clarify as time passes. But even if it doesn't, there should still be a suppressive effect which will help the rifle squads in their mission.

[gnorffy]

I was not able to get direct line of site to anything with my MG, but used it to put harrassing area fire targets close to contacts. This worked to keep them supressed.

With the mortors, I managed to get direct LOS once, but mostly did area targets near the intended target and managed to plink most of them with shrapnal from near hits.

One of the purposes of this tutorial is to show how indirect fire can be just as useful as direct.

[tiohn]

I really appreciate everyone's input so far. I'll go for general suppressing fire when I try it again later. There's also that sneaky scout team in the forest that the tutorial doesn't mention.

[Soylent_Green]

I ran into LOS problems here too. Try shifting your MG team about 50M to the right, along the same "base of fire" ridge. Worked much better for me there.

[Broadsword56]

Yes, I ran into the sneaky scout team, too!

While I enjoyed the nasty surprise, this is supposed to be a training mission. So IMHO it would have been a good "teachable moment" for the manual to show new players how to cross an open area into a "danger area" (a treeline or any other area where bad guys might be lurking in ambush.

Rule 1 is to avoid crossing open areas at all costs, but when it can't be avoided, here's an example if you have 2 squads (assuming the third is in reserve or rearguard), using the proper tactics just in case you really want to do it to prevent casualties. This is probably too boring or time-consuming for a game (the process normally takes 3-5 minutes IRL even for a single squad) but in case you're interested, this is how it's supposed to be done, according to the book Light Infantry Tactics for Small Teams, by Christopher Larsen (adapted into CMBN terms):

1. Stop your squads inside the safe area (near treeline), out of LOS from the danger area.

2. Split Squad 1 and send the leader element forward to the forward edge of the treeline to oberve the danger area. Along the near side, send another element 2-50 meters to the right of the leader, and the final element 20-30 meters to the left of the leader. Set their fire arcs to cover the danger area.

3. Split Squad 2. Send the scout element across to the danger area (using Quick, Hunt or Slow, depending on the situation). This becomes your far side security team. The scout element should pause there for a listening halt to make sure the coast is clear, then...

4. Send the rest of your force across, using the same path as the scouts did, but leave the leader and those left and right covering elements from Step 2 behind to cover everyone.

5. Send the left and right covering elements across.

6. Send the leader across.

[ChrisND]

Yes, I ran into the sneaky scout team, too!

While I enjoyed the nasty surprise, this is supposed to be a training mission. So IMHO it would have been a good "teachable moment" for the manual to show new players how to cross an open area into a "danger area" (a treeline or any other area where bad guys might be lurking in ambush.

There are a lot of good teachable moments that could be worked in. The problem is not writing a 500 page book while doing so.

[Broadsword56]

True enough (although I'd have loved a 500 page manual!). That's why the forums are such a great resource.

[Lanzfeld]

But you missed it. Look at the prebattle intel (the greyed out "?" on the map before you hit go for the first turn). See in the woods? There is something in there and that should be enough to tip you off that you cannot just dash in there.

Also for the MG I run him down the long road running across the back of the map to the other side of the battlefield and setup behind the hedgeline there facing the trenches. He gets full view of trenches and shoots targets every turn.

[speaknspell]

It appears that a last minute tweak before the release to how trees affect LOS has made it more difficult for the Base of Fire

Hmm, that would also explain why good LOS is so hard to get on the in second tutorial campaign. 'But it sounded so easy in the manual!'

[Johnny Canuck]

Hmm, that would also explain why good LOS is so hard to get on the in second tutorial campaign. 'But it sounded so easy in the manual!'

Yes it did sound easy in the manual and no I don't think my units had much of a base of fire at all. . .

[Rafter11]

I've spent a couple of hours now trying to follow the tutorial for the third scenario in the first tutorial campaign. I move my mortar, machine gun, and HQ up to the Base of Fire objective and deploy. My problem is that I can't get LOS to anything on Hill 2014 from this base of fire. I might get lucky and one of the other squads will get LOS to a unit on the hill, but I'll move my HQ and MG all over the place and just cannot get LOS. I've been shuffling these units around the hill that my base of fire is on, but I just can't get a target. This is frustrating.

Also, do I need the HQ to spot for my mortar if I can get LOS for the mortar team?

I had the same problem. So I did an ALT T and got rid of the trees for a moment and found a couple of spots on the Base of Fire with "some" LOS to the OBJ. It worked for me and the mortar rounds landed on the trench line as planned.

This is actually a great "Rifle Platoon in the Attack" training scenario. A little surprise on the way to the OBJ and all about fire superiority at the point of attack.

[tiohn]

I ran into LOS problems here too. Try shifting your MG team about 50M to the right, along the same "base of fire" ridge. Worked much better for me there.

I followed this advice and got great LOS to the trenches. The mortar took out one of the machine gun teams off the bat, and suppressing fire from the MG was so effective that all but one of the enemy infantry squads had surrendered by the time my infantry began to assault the hill.

I am disappointed with how sloppy this tutorial mission was. When I first read through all of the tutorial sections in the manual, I was impressed with how it taught not only the interface, but also basic tactics. To not have the actual missions in game jibe with what is written in the manual is a let down.

[DavidFields]

For the mortar: I put my HQ in the rough patch on the other side of the road. It was able to see enough to allow me to indirect on the german HMG. I agree with Soylent green, I needed to move my MG to the right in order for it to see the german trenches.