Iron explanation

[jonp]

All,

Can someone explain what this means?

Does it mean that if no one can see/contact a friendly unit on the map, you cannot issue orders? Or does it mean the friendly unit just disappears until you can see/contact it?

Thx

jonpfl

[Erik Springelkamp]

Everyone comes back the moment you have no unit selected.

When you select a unit, you only see what the unit is aware of.

The description in the manual is not very clear, or not even quite correct.

[MattMulder]

Usually the Iron difficulty involves longer arty preparations, longer first-aid, not only the friendly unit lost contacts...

[jonp]

Everyone comes back the moment you have no unit selected.

When you select a unit, you only see what the unit is aware of.

The description in the manual is not very clear, or not even quite correct.

Isn't this the same as elite?

Thx

jonpfl

[lookeylou]

one word. Tedious J/K One person's pain is another's pleasure.

Going off memory only. its the same as elite but you have to click through your higher command to get to units across the map.

[Peregrine]

The interface is more awkward to use when giving orders as your selected unit only shows units is can spot, friendly and enemy. One difference. The game is harder or more time consuming as it is more difficult to space your troops sensibly when giving movement orders.

C2 is more difficult because friendly units actually need to spot each other (I think) under iron. The manual goes into zero detail about it's actual impact.

In CMSF units had to spot each other just like an enemy for visual contact. They could be standing near each other and not see each other. I believe this check is much more stringent under Iron than Elite so visual C2 is harder to maintain and this probably flows on to information sharing.

I don't think arty delays, medic aid etc is impacted.

The text description for Iron in both CMSF and CMBN manuals is identical.

[Comandante]

I have been playing Iron from day one and the main difference I see is that the enemy icons are generic - it's harder to establish what kind of enemy unit you are facing. C2 works fine for me. You just have to keep your sub-units in contact and use WW2 formations and battle drills.

[jonp]

I have been playing Iron from day one and the main difference I see is that the enemy icons are generic - it's harder to establish what kind of enemy unit you are facing. C2 works fine for me. You just have to keep your sub-units in contact and use WW2 formations and battle drills.

I could have sworn with Elite the same thing about the icons being generic happens

Thx

jonpfl

[Peregrine]

I have been playing Iron from day one and the main difference I see is that the enemy icons are generic - it's harder to establish what kind of enemy unit you are facing. C2 works fine for me. You just have to keep your sub-units in contact and use WW2 formations and battle drills.

If you have been playing Iron from day one how can you compare it to anything?

I think there is zero impact in regards to spotting/identifying enemy but more difficult C2 for friendlies because individual units need to spot each other. This spotting requiremnent is relaxed in Elite (hence easier C2) and all friendly units are displayed all the time (less bad orders or less time giving orders).

[sawomi]

....ILTICMSF

"Iron" is just the old "Elite" mode, and "Elite" is "Iron" for wussys nowadays.

(From the CMSF v1.0 manual)

Basic Training:

- Friendly units are always spotted

- Spotting information is instantly shared among teams (aka "Borg Spotting")

- Troops suffer slightly fewer casualties and are less likely to panic

- Treating wounded soldiers ("buddy aid") is extremely fast

- Artillery and air support arrives extremely fast

- Enemy units are always fully identified once spotted

- The life/death status of enemy vehicles is immediately displayed

Veteran:

- Friendly units are always spotted

- Enemies are not always immediately identified once spotted andappear as generic "Enemy contacts" (but less often than Elite level)

- Spotting information is distributed among teams using the standard C2 rules

- Treating wounded soldiers is faster than in real life

- Artillery and air support arrives faster than in real life

- The life/death status of enemy vehicles is hidden for a while until the crew bails out or the vehicle is burning

Elite:

- Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another of your units or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit.

- Enemies often need to be identified and until the appear as generic "Enemy contacts"

- Treating wounded soldiers takes a realistic amount of time

- Artillery and air support take a realistic amount of time before arriving

- Commands may not be issued when the game is paused

(From CMSF v1.11 ReadMe)

- "Elite" mode changed so that friendly troops are always displayed, even when not spotted by the current unit. A new mode called "Iron" behaves like the old Elite mode.

[Migo441]

The CM:BN manual (page 61) is less than clear about this. Referring to Iron, it says:

...this option introduces a number of interface limitations which may put off the casual gamer.

But then it expands on only the point that friendly units must be in line of sight or in contact with other friendly units in order to be visible. Is that the whole story behind "a number of interface limitations"? I'm not sure.

I should give Iron a try. I've been playing on Elite under the reasoning that it's like Iron with a built-in time saver. In other words, wouldn't a careful or wise player habitually cycle through all of his units in Iron anyway to make sure he didn't forget anything?

And, in that case, how different is it from Elite?

[YankeeDog]

If you're just playing WEGO, there's really not much point to Iron. As noted, you just end up cycling through your units more to find everyone.

But on Realtime, especially if you discipline yourself to not pause too much, it's a whole different ballgame. Human v. Human no-pause realtime in Iron Mode can be pretty mindbending...

[Migo441]

@YankeeDog

Ah HA. Yep, that makes perfect sense. I guess the other thing is that Iron mode will be AWESOME (getting ahead of myself here) if/when co-play ever arrives. The "fun" part will be not knowing where other friendly forces are and needing to spot them if you come into contact, etc...

[SNAFU]

@YankeeDog

Ah HA. Yep, that makes perfect sense. I guess the other thing is that Iron mode will be AWESOME (getting ahead of myself here) if/when co-play ever arrives. The "fun" part will be not knowing where other friendly forces are and needing to spot them if you come into contact, etc...

That would be an intersting (and rather tasty) kettle of fish!

[gunnersman]

As noted, you just end up cycling through your units more to find everyone.

I don't understand why you would need to do this. It's simple enough to click anywhere on the map that does not have a unit in it and as long as you do not have a command selected. The current unit selected is de-selected and all other units pop into view ( of the player).

I exclusively play Iron. The difference is at the unit level. The units do not receive spotting information (or other) as quickly through the chain of command (radio, audio, hand signal).

When I say spotting I mean to say enemy contacts, not spotting rounds.

[YankeeDog]

I don't understand why you would need to do this. It's simple enough to click anywhere on the map that does not have a unit in it and as long as you do not have a command selected. The current unit selected is de-selected and all other units pop into view ( of the player).

I exclusively play Iron. The difference is at the unit level. The units do not receive spotting information (or other) as quickly through the chain of command (radio, audio, hand signal).

When I say spotting I mean to say enemy contacts, not spotting rounds.

Good point wrt finding your units; easier to just de-select and see the whole force.

But as to the rest, this is news to me... you'd think they'd mention this stuff in the manual er sumfink, especially since this is a change from the Elite-Iron difference in CMSF.

[gunnersman]

what the hell am I thinking. The main difference is contact reports. I can't pull up the manual on my phone. I'm at work. But I think it has to do with all contacts basically looking the same. Instead if a MG team getting an MG icon, they get an infantry icon. Same with AT guns, mortar teams and such. But it's kind of pointless when the unit info window tells you what the unit is when selected.

I think that's about it. I may have left another feature out.

[Migo441]

The section in the manual that says:

- Enemy infantry icons are always the plain "soldier" type, regardless of their armament or function.

Refers to Elite. (of course this would be present in Iron as well.)

[YankeeDog]

what the hell am I thinking. The main difference is contact reports. I can't pull up the manual on my phone. I'm at work. But I think it has to do with all contacts basically looking the same. Instead if a MG team getting an MG icon, they get an infantry icon. Same with AT guns, mortar teams and such. But it's kind of pointless when the unit info window tells you what the unit is when selected.

I think that's about it. I may have left another feature out.

That change comes in at the "Elite" level. In fact, it's the only difference between "Elite" and "Warrior".

Here is the text in the manual specifically describing the differences at the Iron level:

"Friendly units need to be spotted just like enemy units. If you have a friendly unit not in line of sight or in contact with another friendly unit, then the only way to find this unit is by either re-establishing contact with another friendly unit or by clicking through the chain of command in the game interface, jumping from unit to unit"

No other differences between Elite and Iron are specifically mentioned.

So, based on the text in the manual, for WEGO, the only differences between Iron and Elite would seem to be things that create an orders plotting hindrance. Since you have unlimited time in WEGO, you can always "click through," or deselect to see your full force and figure out where everyone is. Realtime is another matter of course.

But perhaps there are some differences not specifically explained in the manual.

[gunnersman]

And there you have it. I was thinking there was more to it. But that's about it. What you quoted does ring correct with me.

When I play the AI i make it a self rule I cannot area fire with one friendly unit at an any given area unless that unit has a contact report from a friendly showing the faded contact report. Unless in circumstances of areas where I suspect the enemy may be such as during the beginning of a scenario when there are no reports to begin with.

[sawomi]

I have played CM since Riesberg-Beta over most all the time since then (mostly pbem [WEGO!] and that means since CMSF every day 1/2 till 1 hour in the morning and again in the evening). ALL the time always in most difficult level avaiable. Here is my point of view for what ever it may be worth:

If you have Respekt about CMBN (means in the end to try to 'beat it like a man'), -> than charge it right on and start with "Iron". It will be harder in the start but turn to less effort in the long run.

1. be care-full about your mouse-pointer -> if you push it to the edge of the screen you will drift off (that's the only real minus point I dont't like over all the years).

2. most use-full 'key': Mouse-wheel. With this you change your viewing mode (fluent).

3. basic viewing mode: zoomed out (drone-view) with no unit selected. This is your 'FHQ-table' (you see a summary of your 'intelligence'). You have 'your map and your units' as symbols. (I suggest to pick up a 'military symbols'-mod, if you 'get used' to them they are better to 'disginwishblabla' then the standard one. But it's a 'mood-point' in the end, don't let the 'grogs to haunt you', just try out what is best for you). Plan your strategies in this mode !.

4. For all details:

- Follow the 'command-chain'. -> means: click on most 'upper'-HQ to sellect all your forces and then down this way...

That's all in the basics.

The rest:

I.

In WEGO-replay you watch first the full turn in all lenght from 'drone-view' (-> 3.). After this - as you like. (There is a 'kick' of course to just start at the selected ground view of the most 'climacteric' unit where the 'movie ended' in the last file you got from your 'antagonist'.)

II.

For 'implementing your tactics' your double-click on the corresponding C2-unit (appropriate HQ's for resulting troop movements, single units for single units movements etc. -> zoom-in as needed and give your orders!)

III.

And that is the 'geil'-point of 'Iron' :]. If you just 'one-click' a single unit (HQ or team dosen't matter -> you instantly have the 'cognition-situation' of this particular unit (means the 'intelligence' this particular unit can deliver to the 'Gesammtlage' at this particular moment !!!)

That is it, what I can say to 'explain Iron'.

I'm aware of course that you can 'kick-exploit' 'lesser' difficult levels for 'game-style' (or this scenario desginer test mode -> NICE ONE BFC!!!!!!!.) But I never bothered to try it out...

Last question: I still play CMx2 with default keys (AND I'M SINISTRAL - EDIT: means: I have to switch with my left hand from the mouse to the 'QWERT'-keys when I want to 'fine-tune' my view in 'ground view', when I accidently push the mouse with my arm-> I'm lost and have to switch back to the mouse).

Of course, I'm 'used' to this state since years, but can anybody explain me how to design NUM-pad keys for german-version CMx2? That would solve a year-old problem.

*

'...' means: I'm not realy shure for right English word.

[sawomi]

edit: double post deleted.

[Lanzfeld]

It is harder to keep C2 in Iron because the units have to actually spot each other at a distance and not just be in LOS and range of each other.

Try this in Iron. Put a HQ unit and a squad in the woods where they have visual C2. Now hide one of them. Visual C2 is lost because they cannot spot each other.

Iron mode makes C2 harder.

[sawomi]

Long post lost before transmitted.

Short: I want to see which unit can see the other (or not) as fast as possible (drone-view -> click unit, deselect, click unit). And I want a cheállenge. That is the first reason I play CM. It would feel 'gamey' to me, to be able to instantly spot friendly units.

But each as he likes.

[sawomi]

In, say, half till one year all you 'noobs' will have 'seen the light'. CMx1 is long gone. Please don't 'wave attack' this good old forum with discussions setteled years ago. (ja- I know, let's just wait a little (3-4 months) and then we will see if you still have complains about 'noob-stuff'.