2 basic queries for returning CM player

[Sgt Joch]

This. One way to fix this issue in the current interface without addition a new command would be to create the ability to do a "null movement" order -- that is, give the player the ability to plot a waypoint right on top of the unit's current location, or another waypoint. Then you could add pause orders, and shift Area Fire targets, without actually moving the unit.

no doubt, but I have never had a situation in CMSF where I needed a infantry unit to area target more than one spot in a 60 second turn. You can limit how long it shoots an an area by using a pause + face order.

This can be useful for AFVs where the number of HE shells is limited and you want to pump just a couple of shells in each area, but this already possible by combining short movement + pause + face orders.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=82036

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=82035

[Blackcat]

Dang! Ever since CMBO I have been waiting for four things in realtion to MGs and HMGs in particular: grazing fire, beaten zones, the "2 inch tap" and indirect fire. This afternoon I thought I had two of the four. Now I find I have but a simulation fo one.

Better than nothing, obviously, but BF forget what I said earlier.

[Blackcat]

"I have never had a situation in CMSF where I needed a infantry unit to area target more than one spot in a 60 second turn"

Fair enough, but in WWII if HMGs are to function as HMGs then the ability to provide grazing fire over a wider arc than provided by a 8 by 8 target square is at the minimum required. BF have never got machine guns working correctly and I well remember the threads on this in the forum in CMBO days.

There have been improvements since, most notably in CMBB and with Yankee Dog's pseudo grazing fire in CMSF (which I am annoyed I missed). However HMGs are still seriously undermodelled in CMBN.

[Michael Emrys]

The difference is that properly sited grazing fire can create a long, deep zone that is difficult for infantry to move across; it's more about making it difficult for the enemy to move across a certain axis, than it is dropping bullets into a certain more or less circular area. CMx1 didn't simulate this is at all; the area fire effect was an approx. 50m circle around the aim point, and there was no suppressive or casualty effect beyond this.

In CMx2, an "Area Fire" order also targets a zone on the map that is more or less a circle (a few adjacent action spots, it seems). So you can't specifically order an MG to "interdict enemy movement along this axis". But since CMx2 does track the actual flight of each bullet in detail, the bullets may come close to or hit enemy units far away from the Area Fire aim point. So if you read the terrain correctly, and pick your target point carefully, you can kind of create a grazing fire zone.

It's tricky. It requires a careful reading of the terrain, and placement of the aim point. But it does work, at least to a degree. I actually discovered this by accident in CMSF when an enemy unit tried to cross the line of fire of an MG I had doing area fire into a target area much farther downrange, and the enemy took a couple of casualties and immediately went to ground.

No I understood what you were saying about grazing fire. I was responding to Blackcat's comment about a beaten zone.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

no doubt, but I have never had a situation in CMSF where I needed a infantry unit to area target more than one spot in a 60 second turn. You can limit how long it shoots an an area by using a pause + face order.

I did it all the time in CMSF (by splitting squads), especially when the enemy is lower-experience. Low experience level infantry is very likely to return fire when fired upon, so area firing for ~ 15 seconds into a location is a very good way to find out if anyone is home.

It would be nice to be able to use MG for this purpose, and be able to say, rake across 100m of bocage line in a single turn.

[DaveyJJ]

It would be nice to be able to use MG for this purpose, and be able to say, rake across 100m of bocage line in a single turn.

Oh, this would be nice. A linear target for a HMG so that you set a start and end point and it rakes across those for the 60 seconds of a WeGo turn. Nice idea.

[Sgt Joch]

Fair enough, but in WWII if HMGs are to function as HMGs then the ability to provide grazing fire over a wider arc than provided by a 8 by 8 target square is at the minimum required. BF have never got machine guns working correctly and I well remember the threads on this in the forum in CMBO days.

There have been improvements since, most notably in CMBB and with Yankee Dog's pseudo grazing fire in CMSF (which I am annoyed I missed). However HMGs are still seriously undermodelled in CMBN.

true, there are RL MG tactics which are not modeled. Hopefully BFC will eventually get around to it.

[Rake]

1 Once you have split a squad for some purpose what is the best way to reconstitute the squad later.

1) Just move them to the same spot (square) and leave them there.

I'm finding that this doesn't always work. I've noticed in a couple of scenarios that teams directed to the same action spot have not rejoined. It happened with a scout team that I sent out in "Busting the Bocage" and again while playing the second TF Raff scenario after splitting a squad to take the "Investigate Activity" location. I'm absolutely certain that I had the teams from the same squad in both circumstances.

In the Raff scenario, the team leader four a four man team was on the right side of the other team while the remaining three were directly adjacent to the left; they finally rejoined after sitting side by side for three or four minutes. It was annoying because I'd wanted to use the squad to assault a location... as it was, I had to use a "Quick" command with one team and a covered arc followed by "Quick" for the other team in the next turn.

Bug or feature?

[Blackcat]

I'm finding that this doesn't always work. I've noticed in a couple of scenarios that teams directed to the same action spot have not rejoined. It happened with a scout team that I sent out in "Busting the Bocage" and again while playing the second TF Raff scenario after splitting a squad to take the "Investigate Activity" location. I'm absolutely certain that I had the teams from the same squad in both circumstances.

In the Raff scenario, the team leader four a four man team was on the right side of the other team while the remaining three were directly adjacent to the left; they finally rejoined after sitting side by side for three or four minutes. It was annoying because I'd wanted to use the squad to assault a location... as it was, I had to use a "Quick" command with one team and a covered arc followed by "Quick" for the other team in the next turn.

Bug or feature?

Dunno, but hand crafting assaults using split squads is better than using the assault command - only one element gets supressed in the event of defensive fire and you can keep the heavy firepower providing supression whist the SMGs go in.

[Rake]

Dunno, but hand crafting assaults using split squads is better than using the assault command - only one element gets supressed in the event of defensive fire and you can keep the heavy firepower providing supression whist the SMGs go in.

As a result of my "handcrafted" assault, I'm coming 'round to that idea. My question is which movement command to use. "Hunt" obviously won't work because the assault team will stop upon contact. The lack of situational awareness with a "Quick or "Fast" order is a concern and "Move" is usually to slow. "Quick" with a covered arc would seem to be the best choice in most circumstances. And, what about the situation where the overwatch team might not have LOS to the assault location?

Just curious, because I'm still very new to the CMx2 system and trying to work out the new tactics. Thanks for your reply.

[Blackcat]

As a result of my "handcrafted" assault, I'm coming 'round to that idea. My question is which movement command to use. "Hunt" obviously won't work because the assault team will stop upon contact. The lack of situational awareness with a "Quick or "Fast" order is a concern and "Move" is usually to slow. "Quick" with a covered arc would seem to be the best choice in most circumstances. And, what about the situation where the overwatch team might not have LOS to the assault location?

Just curious, because I'm still very new to the CMx2 system and trying to work out the new tactics. Thanks for your reply.

I use quick and have the supporting unit switch to light fire before the assault team gets too close to the assault location (I am also careful not to have the assault team run through the supressive fire whilst it still in full throttle).

If your overwatch team doesn't have a LOF to the assault location I suggest you shouldn't be trying to assault in the first place. Anywhere that needs an assault needs at least a minute of supressive fire before the team goes in, at least it does the way I play.