xian Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 A question for those with knowledge of military history... Does anyone know if it is realistic for the last man in a Panzergrenadier squad to be carrying 361 rounds of 7.62mm ammo? Seems like an awful lot to me for one man to be running around with. Closing the Pocket (Axis) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverstars Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Was the Panzergrenadier in the same spot as his fallen Squadmembers? If so , thats why hes showing that much ammo. It's basically showing the ammo he has access to in his vicinity. I think though that if he moves fast enough from the area that number should go down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 No - he's moving around with it, but I'll get him to 'leg it' far away and see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 À box of mg ammo should be 250 rounds on itself no? Maybe he was the mg ammo Guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hmmm... Well, he's on his own at the corner of the map and still has 361 rounds. His designation is 'soldier'. I have noticed that the quantity of infantry ammo is generally very high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 361 rounds of MG ammo isn't too ridiculous if he's not carrying anything else too large and bulky -- off the top of my head, that would probably be something like 30lbs of ammo. For an ammo bearer, that's not too bad. Now, if he's carrying all that ammo, plus the MG42, plus half a dozen grenades and a couple of Panzerfausts... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 No - just a rifle. He's doesn't seem weighed down at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 So he's carrying carrying maybe 250 rounds of belt ammo for the MG42, a 75-round snail drum for same, and about 8 5-round stripper clips for his personal firearm. Again, not too ridiculous. Personally, if I was the last guy left in the squad, and the MG was no longer around, I'd probably ditch the MG ammo. But being a well-trained German soldier, he'll probably continue to carry the ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 No, that's not to much but he shouldn't be able to run all over the map either I hope. If so, that's a problem imo. 30lbs of crap ain't that much but after 10 minutes it is if ya follow me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Maybe the algorithm automatically reassigns part of the ammo from casualties to the other soldiers - apart from medical aid. Then the last survivors of a team end up with a lot of ammo, if they have spent ammo slower than they died. Maybe the ammo is not even recorded for individual soldiers, but only at the team level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Who is carrying what ammo is actually recorded at the individual soldier level (was this way in CMSF, anyway, and I don't see why they'd change this). However, there is also an abstraction that allows squad members to share ammo, so you'll never see one guy in a squad out of ammo and not firing, while the rest of the squad still has ammo (assuming same caliber, etc.) Soldiers do have to perform "buddy aid" to pick up WIA/KIA soldier's ammo. In the case of KIA, this is very quick -- it's easy to miss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Who is carrying what ammo is actually recorded at the individual soldier level (was this way in CMSF, anyway, and I don't see why they'd change this). However, there is also an abstraction that allows squad members to share ammo, so you'll never see one guy in a squad out of ammo and not firing, while the rest of the squad still has ammo (assuming same caliber, etc.) Soldiers do have to perform "buddy aid" to pick up WIA/KIA soldier's ammo. In the case of KIA, this is very quick -- it's easy to miss. Hmm, if you would implement this at the team/section level and not at the soldier's level, there would be no way the player would notice this, while the ammo sharing algorithm would be much easier. You would only have to take the individual into account when he fires, and when he leaves the team/section (split into teams or WIA/KIA), or joins the team/section when teams merge, or with buddy aid. Anyway, that is black box stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 360rnds doesn't sound that much. A normal soldier supporting a MG gunner can today toll around on some 500 rounds in a ruck in some cases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hmm, if you would implement this at the team/section level and not at the soldier's level, there would be no way the player would notice this, while the ammo sharing algorithm would be much easier. You would only have to take the individual into account when he fires, and when he leaves the team/section (split into teams or WIA/KIA), or joins the team/section when teams merge, or with buddy aid. Anyway, that is black box stuff. One time it comes into play is when the guy carrying most of the ammo for a team gets hit in a very bad place to send someone out to do buddy aid and scrounge the ammo. Like if he gets tagged in the middle of an open field or something. An MG with no ammo bearers has a very short period of usefulness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Murrin Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 360rnds doesn't sound that much. A normal soldier supporting a MG gunner can today toll around on some 500 rounds in a ruck in some cases. 360 7.92 long cartridge rounds is a friggin' lot. Fortunately, BFC did well with the fatigue model and they tire badly after running a few hundred meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 This is an excellent webpage that shows a lot of data about German Infantry equipment. There are also standard ammo load out shown too. The Google translate give the general gist but a translation by one of our German mates on the forums would be good http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Soldat/Bekleidung_Ausrustung.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Since Joe Balkoski's "Beyond the Beachhead" is the only good book on the subject in my library, I'll quote what he writes about this: Besides Schutze I (the MG42 machine gunner), "the rest of the German squad was devoted almost entirely to feeding the ravenous MG42 [it fired 1,200 rounds per minute]. One of the primary duties of German riflemen, in fact, was to carry ammunition forward to the machine gun crew. An MG42 in battle would typically expend 3,000 rounds per day -- the equivalent of 150 BAR magazines." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Is he Ammo guy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimmer Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Delving into my personal ammo stash, five 70-round bandoliers of 7.92x57 light ball in 5-round stripper clips weighs approximately 19.5 pounds. German heavy ball would have weighed a bit more (154-grain vs. 198-grain). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 The Germans had heavy balls ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I saw a documentary where a single soldier carried 2 M60s and enough ammunition to kill a division or so of the North Vietnamese Army so your guy should have no problems with that much. I think it was called Rambo II. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodwood Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I remember the drill cotton 7.62 bandoleers of the 70s in pockets of ten rounds I think, and 100 rounds per bandoleer. some photos of diggers Viet nam show them carrying several bandoleers personal ammo plus maybe a 66mm sraaw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The Germans had heavy balls ? Not Goebbels - he no balls at all. Goering had two, but they were very small. Apparently, Himmler had something similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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