BF, You Blew It

[MajorJerkov]

Yeah, and while you're at it, tell us how good the multiplayer options are too.

OHHHH BURNNn!

[noxnoctum]

Yeah, and while you're at it, tell us how good the multiplayer options are too.

The difference is Thief was built from the ground up as a singleplayer only game. The idea of multiplayer in Thief is kinda ludicrous tbh. I mean who would your "opponents" be? The guards ? Ya standing around for an hour waiting for some guy to sneak in and maybe just knock you out before you know he's there sounds reaaaaal fun .

There was a MP thief mod released a while ago on the UT engine I believe, but I can't imagine it having anywhere NEAR the immersion of the singleplayer campaign. It just couldn't when you hear guys yelling in American English to "dude don't go up that ladder man... haven't you been paying ANY attention to the patrol pattern that guard has? Dumbass."

From what I heard, the mod, "Thievery" played more like a big online version of hide and seek. That's not really at all what the Thief games are about. (though people are welcome to play Thievery, I'm just saying that Thief was MADE for singleplayer---it can't be compared to Combat Mission where the AI will NEVER be up to snuff until we all have super computers running in our houses)

[MajorJerkov]

The difference is Thief was built from the ground up as a singleplayer only game. The idea of multiplayer in Thief is kinda ludicrous tbh. I mean who would your "opponents" be? The guards ? Ya standing around for an hour waiting for some guy to sneak in and maybe just knock you out before you know he's there sounds reaaaaal fun .

Players are all thiefs vs guards all competing for the loot in different maps, castles whatever... sounds fun!

[Sledge110]

Good luck with that.

The hope dies at last.

In my opinion its not impossible, because its just a Question of time, money and and a risk friendly decider.

I dont like men of war because its unrealistic in many ways. But that difference in realism is the ONLY - THE ONE AND ONLY - advantage of CM. In all other categories is CM not able to competit.

If some guys would develop a realism mode for MoW, which compares to the realism of CM or reachs > 80%, then there is no need for me to play CM in RT. I would play realMoW with my buddys from steam, skype and teamspeak. I hope now u and BF nderstand how important TCPIP-Wego is for CM?

[noxnoctum]

Players are all thiefs vs guards all competing for the loot in different maps, castles whatever... sounds fun!

And it could be it just wouldn't ever come close to the SP "campaign" (I should really call it the SP "epic story" ), and you'll agree if you've ever played Thief 1 or 2.

[Zatoichi]

Hey nox, I was just messing, sorry I couldn't resist!

Still, I maintain this thread is full of opinions, but the only one that has an impact on multiplayer is that expressed by BFC, and it's not changed for 4 years.

[MajorJerkov]

The hope dies at last.

In my opinion its not impossible, because its just a Question of time, money and and a risk friendly decider.

I dont like men of war because its unrealistic in many ways. But that difference in realism is the ONLY - THE ONE AND ONLY - advantage of CM. In all other categories is CM not able to competit.

If some guys would develop a realism mode for MoW, which compares to the realism of CM or reachs > 80%, then there is no need for me to play CM in RT. I would play realMoW with my buddys from steam, skype and teamspeak.

That would be a good mod, but, that engine would need a total overhaul. Maybe when MoW becomes freeware someone will trifle with the code... ALOT.

But, Im missing the point.

It truly is a niche market these guys at BF are pandering to. I dont believe any large company would ever take on a game like this just because it will likely not sell well to the target demographic.

They said they are working on better MP, but it takes time for a small development team. Just give it time.

[Sledge110]

That would be a good mod, but, that engine would need a total overhaul. Maybe when MoW becomes freeware someone will trifle with the code... ALOT.

But, Im missing the point.

It truly is a niche market these guys at BF are pandering to. I dont believe any large company would ever take on a game like this just because it will likely not sell well to the target demographic.

They said they are working on better MP, but it takes time for a small development team. Just give it time.

I know. I preorderd the game, because i have big hope in BFC that they fast fix that major multiplayer TCPIP-Wego problem. But i understand other online-player and me too. We have good arguments which cant be ignored and our justified wish for TCPIP-Wego should be on place 1 on the featurelist

I lost about 100 dollar in an unplayable Multiplayer-TOW before and dont want to repeat it.

[MajorJerkov]

And it could be it just wouldn't ever come close to the SP "campaign" (I should really call it the SP "epic story" ), and you'll agree if you've ever played Thief 1 or 2.

I played Thief, really enjoyed it. Never completed the game, I got bored about halfway through... or maybe my system at the time was just really crap... and I abandoned it. Either way, I usually get bored of SP FPS's after 20 hours of play or more.

[sburke]

@sburke

Go play Thief 2: The Metal Age (no it's not a "shooter", not even close), and come back and tell me graphics have anything to do with immersion.

And I highly doubt the vast majority on here are as concerned with graphics as you seem to be.

I actually did play all the thief games. They were in fact some of my favorite games of all time, however that was partly because they were so unique. The graphics may not have been that good but honestly, neither was the AI. Still they were a blast.

However this wasn't a disagreement over game engine versus graphics. CMBN has both. The issues was MP versus graphics and that is a completely different discussion. Again you are claiming to speak for the "vast majority", I don't see that reflected in the posts though. Instead I have seen repeated statements of the quality of the graphics and the immersion that then brings in the game. Maybe I am just seeing them because they agree with my own views, but by the same token, maybe you aren't seeing them because it doesn't jive with yours. Either way apparently BFC feels that the majority of the people who represent their base like em or they likely wouldn't have spent the time.

[sburke]

I played Thief, really enjoyed it. Never completed the game, I got bored about halfway through... or maybe my system at the time was just really crap... and I abandoned it. Either way, I usually get bored of SP FPS's after 20 hours of play or more.

Yeah well that was the problem. Once you realized that if you did get spotted, you could pretty much run away and the guards would all reset, it lost that immersion factor. It kind of required a suspension of belief in a way and setting your own standards of play- say for example if I am spotted at all, I lose. It didn't live on my hard drive anywhere near as long as the CM games. I only gave up CMAK now that CMBN is coming out. It was interesting in it's day though.

[StellarRat]

I don't give a rip about Wego multi-player. Playing in real-time is far more realistic and lets you finish a game in a few minutes instead of hours or days. I used to play CMBB and I dreamed of real time play. Now we have it and it is an improvement not a problem.

[Wodin]

^real time WOULD be more realistic if your AI pixeltruppen where as good as a human...so you can take your attention away from them and concentrate somehwhere else...

All this tripe about one being more realsitic than another is getting very boring...

Both have their advantages and disadvantages...play how you like and have fun...

I could argue the point of how WEGO is more realsitic but I couldn't be bothered....as it is a none starter either way.

[Erik Springelkamp]

I think most people are upset that BFC fails to see that better multiplayer options = more people playing online = more sales.

It is probably so that a 10% increase in customers playing only against the AI represents more new buyers than a 100% increase in multiplayers.

[StellarRat]

Your pixel truppen do have enough sense to try take cover, etc.... I certainly didn't feel overwelmed trying to play the Demo in real time.

[StellarRat]

Besides from what I've seen and read most of time in battle is spent hiding and shooting. Tactical manuevering is done in distinct chunks. This cuts down the work load substantially compared to a typical RTS.

[LemoN]

I don't give a rip about Wego multi-player. Playing in real-time is far more realistic and lets you finish a game in a few minutes instead of hours or days. I used to play CMBB and I dreamed of real time play. Now we have it and it is an improvement not a problem.

The problem is that in real life there's one very important difference.

I real life you could simply tell this AT gun to look for a hull down position on the left flank so they can cover that farm and the adjecent field and they'd go out and do it themselves. This isn't possible in RT. The AI simply isn't good enough, and won't be for another 10 years+.

[Louie the Rat]

I've always enjoyed the pbem a great deal

[Soldat-Hans]

I don't give a rip about Wego multi-player. Playing in real-time is far more realistic and lets you finish a game in a few minutes instead of hours or days. I used to play CMBB and I dreamed of real time play. Now we have it and it is an improvement not a problem.

Me too. But when I have friends or who ever at home, I wanna play the Igoyougo principe. Or he installs the game on his laptop, if it works well.

[Wengart]

WE-GO puts you close to the company commander side of things. You get to give commands to all of your units, but then for 1 minute the squad leaders carry out your orders.

While Real-Time puts you closer to the squad leader role. You have the ability to micro units every second of the game, however you will not have the ability to effectively command large groups of men.

[StellarRat]

The problem is that in real life there's one very important difference.

I real life you could simply tell this AT gun to look for a hull down position on the left flank so they can cover that farm and the adjecent field and they'd go out and do it themselves. This isn't possible in RT. The AI simply isn't good enough, and won't be for another 10 years+.

Yes, but wego also prevents you from fixing a situation that unfolds unexpectedly. Like if you move into an ambush. You might not be able to give any orders for a long time. That's not very realistic either. Also, if the troop AI is too good you start moving into the world of command level games. Those can be boring.

[LemoN]

Yes, but wego also prevents you from fixing a situation that unfolds unexpectedly. Like if you move into an ambush. You might not be able to give any orders for a long time. That's not very realistic either. Also, if the troop AI is too good you start moving into the world of command level games. Those can be boring.

Actually that is rather realistic. At last far more realistic than being able to immediately react with all assets and having a Sherman fire at a spot where you know are enemies but the Sherman doesn't know. I don't think you realise how "slow" real warfare is.

Both RT and WEGO have their advantages and disadvantages, no doubt, but saying either one is more realistic is simply false.

WEGO gives you the ability to make up for the lack of AI in some cases, although sometimes this can be a bit too much.

RT gives you a better "game flow" and allows you to react to unexpected things faster.

[StellarRat]

I guess it all boils down how much is this "missing " feature worth? Going by some reactions you'd think the game was fatally flawed. It's far from that. I can see BFCs perspective on this. They are other things I'd much rather have first....like horses! ;-)

[LemoN]

I guess it all boils down how much is this "missing " feature worth? Going by some reactions you'd think the game was fatally flawed. It's far from that. I can see BFCs perspective on this. They are other things I'd much rather have first....like horses! ;-)

It's not the game but the multiplayer that is fatally flawed for many.

[C'Rogers]

Nox and others pushing the multiplayer equals huge crowds for CM:SF, one question.

Why didn't CMx1 sell better?

I mean, it had TCIP WeGO. Shouldn't people have been going crazy for it? I mean this was before the better graphics, before the real time options, before SP campaigns, so why is BFC happy with the sales of CMx2 if these things shouldn't matter?

And again, if they wanted to push multiplayer, shouldn't the addition of real time MP be more important than no TCIP WeGo?

I don't think MP games that last 2-4 hours are ever going to be a big seller. I enjoy them, and look forward to their eventual inclusion, but I doubt the mass market appeal. Nox sites IL a couple times and its continued group of 500 players. That's nice, but even if that is 500 new people buying it every year, it won't come close to covering the costs of making a game.