Scout platoon w/ no targets

[Skeptible]

I just ran into this one. Actually it was more like half a scout platoon in open desert, daytime. I stick one of the recon Hummers up on a high point and have him take a look around. He sees nothing. He starts getting plinked by a machine-gun. He still sees nothing. I found out that the MG will get a lucky shot before the guy up top sees anything. A couple of RPGs were also launched from somewhere.

There are acres of ground where the defenders might be and no artillery on call. Even assuming I had pulled back the Hummer as soon as rounds started bouncing off it, how the heck do you proceed?

[Eagle2]

What forces do you have at hand? Is it a Bradley, Stryker, or LI force?

[Erwin]

Generally, it is a very BAD idea to expose ANY vehicle early in the "recon" period of the game. The CM2 maps are usually not large enuff to safely expose a recon vehicle (ie: equipped with special gear) without getting shot at and easily KIA. This is especially true of ATGM vehicles that have telescoping missile launchers.

The CM2 game system does NOT give these units any special "hull down advantages" over any other vehicle. So, if your recon vehicle can see an enemy, the enemy can see your vehicle even if, in RL, all that would be exposed would be the telescopes/FLIR whatever devices...

Better to dismount guys with binoculars (quite realistic) and have them get into good vantage positions (SLOW MOVE if necessary) and let them sit there for a few turns observing (UNHIDE them).

The more time spent observing (and the more observing units), the more they will start to see enemy icons, and maybe enemy units themselves.

[abneo3sierra]

Erwin is pretty accurate, especially the note on the map size...ATGMs are in range of anything on the map (that they can see, at least) and if you remember always that "if you can see them, they can see you"..doesn't mean they WILL see you, but the longer you sit there, the more likely.

What I often do in CMSF...is either dismount, as Erwin suggested, or use a fast recon vehicle, move forward (just at edge of LOS..be it a hill crest, etc) with a command already to reverse again immediately, while keeping another,probably dismounted unit, quietly observing...your vehicle-based unit will go forward, probably not see much,then reverse,while the on-foot observer will just quietly watch...the enemy will be observable usually as they aim,fire,etc(cannot really hide during this process)..then mark their positions, repeat several times (ATGM usually cannot fire instantly, so as long as you only stay "visible" for brief seconds you should survive) then the on-foot observer, calls in artillery,and then you proceed.

edit..just noticed you said no arty on call, you can also do this without arty..fix his location with the observer, and have the vehicle "area target" a couple of shots at the area...usually this will cause the enemy to "go to ground" and keep their heads down,during which time they cannot target you. repeat this still a few times, take only a few bursts of fire at each location. You are not really trying to kill them, just suppress them. And advance your main force forward by bounds..anytime someone pops up and becomes visible, repeat..bring your vehicle up, fire some bursts, then back into safety, all the while, advancing your main force along a different axis.

[stikkypixie]

I just ran into this one. Actually it was more like half a scout platoon in open desert, daytime. I stick one of the recon Hummers up on a high point and have him take a look around. He sees nothing. He starts getting plinked by a machine-gun. He still sees nothing. I found out that the MG will get a lucky shot before the guy up top sees anything. A couple of RPGs were also launched from somewhere.

There are acres of ground where the defenders might be and no artillery on call. Even assuming I had pulled back the Hummer as soon as rounds started bouncing off it, how the heck do you proceed?

Well now you know a notion of the enemy forces. What you can try to do now, is move around to find alternate covered routes to where it is you need to be. RPGs also give you an indication of how close the enemy is (probably around 500m).

So what I would do is, do go on that hill because you know it's covered by the enemy. Try to scout alternate routes (this means risking enemy fire) or put your recon forces somewhere to observe possible avenues of approach for the enemy. Moving units are much easier to see. Remember that defenders usually cannot be everywhere, so there is bound to be a weak spot .

[Skeptible]

This scenario is in the campaign. The map is long and narrow and wide open. My forces are two Hummers with the optics on the roof, 1 Hummer w/M2 a HQ unit and a Bradly initially. A Striker platoon shows up shortly.

My problem was that in the previous scenario the Hummers with the optics were spotting stuff that nobody else was, so I thought that maybe they were good for something. I think maybe the difference was that the first time it was dark and the Hummers could scoot around without being spotted, this time it is broad daylight they can't get far enough away for their optics to be an advantage.

[ZPB II]

Sometimes you're faced with circumstances like this. I guess it's to be expected that in a hot war strange conditions sometimes arise, such as a recon force attacking enemy positions. You'd expect the routine to be for a recon force to locate the enemy and just fall back, since there's no way they can engage the position in a firefight. Now, since the game presents a scenario where you need to do something like this, I just accept it as an outlier situation and do an outlier approach.

In my book it's most of the time just a bum rush. I figure that if the recon commander really needs to take that position with just Hummers, hell probably curse his superior and adopt an unorthodox stance. Either that or just refuse to attack. It works best if you have vehicles able to pop smoke, have the lead vehicles pop it in sequence so hopefully the ones coming last will make it across unscathed. If you play real time and have really brave men, have the lead guys dismount real quick and throw a smoke grenade and hop back in. =D

I've found out that Strykers for the most part make excellent vehicles to rush with. They are pretty resilient to RPG fire in the sense that the occupants often survive. The smoke screens they lay are really good and the air sentries give a bit of situational awareness as to where the heck the enemy is when you dismount.

Gamey? I won't say, but what kind of a commander would use his recon troops in a static slugfest with entrenched and heavily armed defenders. :/

There will be dead pixeltruppen, that's for sure. But it works sometimes. I played that NATO scen where you have just a few G-wagens in the start and it's an open desert with enemies in trenches. I just drove the cars straight into the trench, blazing away and managed to wrestle it from the enemy.

[abneo3sierra]

This scenario is in the campaign. The map is long and narrow and wide open. My forces are two Hummers with the optics on the roof, 1 Hummer w/M2 a HQ unit and a Bradly initially. A Striker platoon shows up shortly.

My problem was that in the previous scenario the Hummers with the optics were spotting stuff that nobody else was, so I thought that maybe they were good for something. I think maybe the difference was that the first time it was dark and the Hummers could scoot around without being spotted, this time it is broad daylight they can't get far enough away for their optics to be an advantage.

Your hummers with optics CAN spot better than other units, it was not a mistake on your part...that is their job.

[stikkypixie]

This scenario is in the campaign. The map is long and narrow and wide open. My forces are two Hummers with the optics on the roof, 1 Hummer w/M2 a HQ unit and a Bradly initially. A Striker platoon shows up shortly.

My problem was that in the previous scenario the Hummers with the optics were spotting stuff that nobody else was, so I thought that maybe they were good for something. I think maybe the difference was that the first time it was dark and the Hummers could scoot around without being spotted, this time it is broad daylight they can't get far enough away for their optics to be an advantage.

They are *better* at spotting but they have their limitations. I think you just come across one.

[jnt62006]

Cmsf Is Not A Platform For Simulating Reconnaissance.

[abneo3sierra]

That is correct, it is in this area, more "game"..so learn the game,and enjoy it.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

If you have artillery and/or mortar support use smoke, Use it, particularly if you have Themal Imaging and the enemy don't. Also many vehicles have smoke grenades. Even if the crews don't use these you still have the option to order them to do so,

A well timed, well placed smoke screen can create an excellent covered route even if the terrain does not provide one. Anticipate where the enemy positions might be and blind them.