Onions

[Wicky]

What about Humanists and Aethiests? Do they lack a "moral compass", are there more of them bereft of religion in jail than religious adherents.

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

[abneo3sierra]

What about Humanists and Aethiests? Do they lack a "moral compass", are there more of them bereft of religion in jail than religious adherents.

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

Humanists and atheists could nearly in themselves be classified as a religion, and IF that gives their 'followers' a moral compass, all the better, and the more they even would then qualify themselves as a religion..look..If someone wants to worship a potato in the field, and if they believe that potato tells them to not lie, to be fair to each other, to not kill, to keep an oath, for example marriage, etc...then I am 100% in favor of them following their potato. The issue lies with people who decide that THEY can decide what is right, what is wrong, can tell "white lies"...they believe that the world is grey rather than black or white...this is when people begin to lose that compass, and evil usually results...because it may be that MY idea of right, is to kill you, while YOUR idea of right, is to steal from someone because "they are wealthy" and won't miss it, in the spirit of your country's "Robin Hood" It is when people begin to bend the rules, so to speak, that there begins to be a problem. The people bending, are generally NOT adhering to the religious beliefs they themselves claim, either.

[Dietrich]

"I don't like being told what to think by people who say they hate being told what to think."

—me

[Stalins Organ]

It is when people decide they need NO religion, that morals suffer. NOt "Christian" Not "Islam" Not "Buddhism" Not "Judaism" nor any of the myriad, ALL of which attempt to give people a "moral compass".

Got any evidence to back that up?

I've got plenty that people use religon's "moral compass" to butcher each other in vast quantities all over teh world throughout time......what are the examples of people doing so because they have no religon?

I guess there's Stalin/communism........but even there they did have a "moral compass" - what was good for "the proletariat revolution" or whatever it is they decided to call themselves.......and I don't see their behaviour as being any better or worse than, say, the reformation and counter-reformation, the crusades, the jihadis, the KKK, etc., etc.....

[abneo3sierra]

Got any evidence to back that up?

I've got plenty that people use religon's "moral compass" to butcher each other in vast quantities all over teh world throughout time......what are the examples of people doing so because they have no religon?

I guess there's Stalin/communism........but even there they did have a "moral compass" - what was good for "the proletariat revolution" or whatever it is they decided to call themselves.......and I don't see their behaviour as being any better or worse than, say, the reformation and counter-reformation, the crusades, the jihadis, the KKK, etc., etc.....

Sadly, I agree with you. However, these examples ALL broke the "moral code" of the religion they were 'practicing'..in each of your examples, some person decided himself, what was right, and broke with the "rules" of his own religion to enforce it.

And communism has been in its history one of the most virulent "Anti-religion" themes of all time.."religion is the opiate of the masses.." etc..,and has killed more people than any religious group in history..the cultural revolution in China, the purges in the USSR, etc. They are actually an example of setting a "moral compass"based upon something NOT religious, which is the point I am arguing on anyway. If you believe a "God" is telling you to do things that are right, then even if the God doesnt exist, you still will be more likely to do things that are right..charity is a huge example, most religions of the world give enormous amounts to charity, they do so because they believe God wishes them to do this...now even if someday we determined that God was not there at all, the belief in him still would have saved many millions of people due to that charity belief, alone.

[abneo3sierra]

"I don't like being told what to think by people who say they hate being told what to think."

—me

I agree...for those who follow religion, also, keep in mind they probably hate being told over and over again they are wrong, as well.

I didn't have a chance to tell you, your signature line is hilarious!

On this very forum you have members posting in this thread, who include in their signatures, insults to religion. You do not see an insult on my signature to those lacking it, while my opinion of them indeed is they are not trustworthy in general. When I make an oath, my hand on the Bible, for example, I keep it because of what the Bible represents to me. When someone with NO "rules" makes an oath, I would be very mistrusting of it, because there needs to be something "behind" it, in order to keep it.

[Michael Emrys]

However, these examples ALL broke the "moral code" of the religion they were 'practicing'...

But you see, the very ease with which the "moral codes" of religions can be broken, or at least bent to ends contrary to their founders' intent, casts doubt upon the whole idea of the utility of religion as you have propounded it.

Michael

[abneo3sierra]

That is indeed a valid argument Michael, probably the best one from "your" side. People just seem to be going f***ing crazy sometimes.

[dieseltaylor]

It seems strange that the Northern European countries who are primarily non-religious have a more encompassing society than the US which is probably the most nominally religious of the advanced countries. Certainly also the one with the highest belief in the Devil.

So on the face of it, for the poor and suffering, it is better to live in a irreligious educated country. : )

Is the loss of moral compass due to bad examples for children growing up? I do believe so and watching the occasional childrens televison I am amazed at the commoness of showing bad behaviour as normal behaviour. I know for the purposes of TV its much better to have children behaving badly than children being well-behaved so what we are showing children as they grow-up is bad behaviour.

And role models - phew - drugs sex and no long term consequences. How wonderful would these people look if banged up in gaol/jail for 12 months instead of a few weeks in detox/rehab.

Our local extremely smart actress Jonnae Lumley had an insight which got some flak:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/celebritynews/8352571/Joanna-Lumley-were-raising-lazy-children-with-no-morals.html

Actually curiously on topic this spoof may have an answer:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/stephen-jay-gould-speaks-out-against-science-papar,266/

[Kanonier Reichmann]

On this very forum you have members posting in this thread, who include in their signatures, insults to religion. You do not see an insult on my signature to those lacking it, while my opinion of them indeed is they are not trustworthy in general.

The only poster in this thread who has anything in their sigline related to religion is Stalins Organist where it states..."Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

Where is the insult to religion? It's merely stating a fact that goes as far back as Roman times, all through the Middle Ages and more modern times with 'recent' examples including the wholesale slaughter of Americans (note- this term includes South Americans) by the Spanish & Portugese in the name of religion up to and including current jihads. Note also that the quote makes no reference to SO's religious beliefs, if any, whatsoever.

Regards

KR

[abneo3sierra]

It seems strange that the Northern European countries who are primarily non-religious have a more encompassing society than the US which is probably the most nominally religious of the advanced countries. Certainly also the one with the highest belief in the Devil.

So on the face of it, for the poor and suffering, it is better to live in a irreligious educated country. : )

Is the loss of moral compass due to bad examples for children growing up? I do believe so and watching the occasional childrens televison I am amazed at the commoness of showing bad behaviour as normal behaviour. I know for the purposes of TV its much better to have children behaving badly than children being well-behaved so what we are showing children as they grow-up is bad behaviour.

And role models - phew - drugs sex and no long term consequences. How wonderful would these people look if banged up in gaol/jail for 12 months instead of a few weeks in detox/rehab.

Our local extremely smart actress Jonnae Lumley had an insight which got some flak:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/celebritynews/8352571/Joanna-Lumley-were-raising-lazy-children-with-no-morals.html

Actually curiously on topic this spoof may have an answer:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/stephen-jay-gould-speaks-out-against-science-papar,266/

I probably agree some with the actress, very smart. And yes, the culture of no role models, etc, all feed into it. Anyone who COULD be a role model, our old "heroes" etc...there are those who look to tear down...it is almost a sport in certain parts of the media, to look for holes to tear people down who have done good 90% of the time, as people dig up the 10%. And the cycle continues, a downward spiral, the kind known to aviators as a death spiral. One part is missing, and one by one other parts fail because of it, as society continues to spiral down. The American sitcom actor Charlie Sheen is a great example..talented?yes..but mostly at playing, basically, himself..a drunk partier.Yes, it is funny, yes we laugh, but these are the people we sit and watch,and begin to relate to..yeah, it's ok to get wasted and to go to bed with someone we don't even know, and who cares,right? but that "moral decay" goes back into the rest of society then also...in your original post, about driving the onion farmers out of work...those people who did that, did so to satisfy their own wishes and desires, in just the same way as a drug addict, or a drunk would, with no regard for the others who were being hurt. Somewhere in us, there should be a moral compass that actually cares when another of us is hurt, that has been my point in all of this...and wherever we find that "moral compass" does not matter, as long as we find it..as I said , even if it is from a "holy potato"

[abneo3sierra]

The only poster in this thread who has anything in their sigline related to religion is Stalins Organist where it states..."Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

Where is the insult to religion? It's merely stating a fact that goes as far back as Roman times, all through the Middle Ages and more modern times with 'recent' examples including the wholesale slaughter of Americans (note- this term includes South Americans) by the Spanish & Portugese in the name of religion up to and including current jihads. Note also that the quote makes no reference to SO's religious beliefs, if any, whatsoever.

Regards

KR

You are correct, I had read Elmar's post, as his signature.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Wait, no way I'm getting the blame for that one. How in Hades could you mistake my post for his sigline?

And bravo for still not being clued in to the fact you said something far more offensive then anything I ever did. You said a daft thing that is completely without factual basis. As much as my post might have offended you, after more careful I think you'll find you took more then I gave. Not entirely accidental, that. I was kinda making a point.

The narrative of this thread in your head and the narrative of this thread in this thread don't quite match. There just isn't all that much insulting of religion going on and the most bigoted remark is yours, abneo.

Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Anyway. Remember the English guy buying up all the cacao when there was already something of a scarcity? Strikes me as much the same thing.

And last week a cacao warehouses burned down near where I live. Not the first one neither, if I recall. Hmmmm.

Man, that stuff sure makes some smoke! Shades of Mordor going to war.

[Stalins Organ]

A am happy for everyone to know my attitude to religon - I am an atheist - I do not believe there exists a many armed female, or a grey bearded old man, or any of the other gods whatever images are used to illustrate them.

I am happy to acknowledge the existance of prophets as people with sometimes great insight into the human condition, and that inevitably since humanity invented gods such people have been religous.

I am even more happy with the upsurge in rationalism and I pray for the future of the human race that it increases.

my sig simply shows that I am not the 1st person to think this.

I would add something to my sig about opiates and masses...except I think it is long enough already

Now it is also true that opiates can be good and useful in many circumstances, and (in addition to times when they are truly useful) I am sure the NWO and our reptilian overlords prefer that people are suitably calm and accepting of their fates.

but also some people are alergic to opiates.......

[abneo3sierra]

Wait, no way I'm getting the blame for that one. How in Hades could you mistake my post for his sigline?

And bravo for still not being clued in to the fact you said something far more offensive then anything I ever did. You said a daft thing that is completely without factual basis. As much as my post might have offended you, after more careful I think you'll find you took more then I gave. Not entirely accidental, that. I was kinda making a point.

The narrative of this thread in your head and the narrative of this thread in this thread don't quite match. There just isn't all that much insulting of religion going on and the most bigoted remark is yours, abneo.

No Elmar, I misread your post as YOUR sig line."imaginary friend" etc...you know the Islamic extremists attacked some Danish newspapers and the Danish embassy, I believe, for less insult than that. I had thought it was in your sig, which would be quite insulting, but as a post, it is not so insulting, as we all say things back and forth in posts, so I apologize.