Mord Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I decided to make a fog of war icon mod for CMSF because of the discussion going on in the Borg IDing thread in the CM:BN forum...first I'll tell you what I am in the midst of doing. Changing all the man based team icons and squads; ATGM, RPG, Javelin, Panzerfaust, MG, HMG, Recoiless, HQ, Sniper, Spotter etc. icons to generic soldier icons...that way you won't know at a glance what exactly they are, outside of being troop based. Now considering the modern day aspects of Shock Force, with access to the internet, news and the like, do you guys think it would be realistic to change all the vehicle icons to one or two generic sets?...The hard part is that we have icons for cars, car type vehicles, pickups, troop trucks, IFVs (tracked and wheeled) and tanks...a tank doesn't look like a truck and a truck doesn't look like a Bradley and a car definitely doesn't look like a Fuchs...Would it be enough to figure you might not be able to identify the exact purpose of a group of guys right away...but could pretty much figure "hey that's a tank!"...or "that's a tracked vehicle!" or "that's a truck!"? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMoria Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have seen lots of military equipment during operations and I could always tell if a vehicle was a tank, a tracked apc type vehicle, a wheeled apc or a soft skin transport, even at distances up to 2 kms (with binos at 3-4 kms). That is assuming I could see enough of it. Much harder if the vehicle is stationary buried in a treeline with a camo net over it. Point is, I can tell if the vehicle is a tank. I may not be able from a distance be able to say what nationality and what the model was but I could say it was a tank and not a self propelled artillery gun or an APC. I would say that for most people familiar with military equipment, identifying the TYPE of equipment from a distance (the max size of a CMSF map) would not be an issue. Identifying the nationality and model is much harder unless it is sitting there in the open. Vehicles in cover have the terrain to break up the distinctive shape of the vehicle making identification hard and moving vehicles usually throw up clouds of dust. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 So you're saying stick with just doing the man based icons? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMoria Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yes. I have observed troops and they are damn hard to identify by type and purpose at any range over 300 meters unless you are using good optics. A generic soldier icon fits the bill. Identifying a HQ section is nearly impossible because at least in modern western armies, binoculars and radios are everywhere and are not restricted to just command level troops. Heavy weapons sections are easier to identify, principally because the average joe in a rifle section is not usually lugging around a HMG or a mortar so if you see several of those, you know it a weapons section. Edit: I reread your response and got a different interpretation from the question. Is it possible to have a generic tank or apc icon or is the game system going to label it (ie. T62 or T72) on the initial spot? If the game engine is going to label it, you should just stick to a generic soldier icon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelley Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I think the infantry idea is perfect. The ATGMs and Recoilless might be better with just the AT Icon...Pretty sure people will be able to ID them regardless of the Icon....same with armor and vehicles 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Edit: I reread your response and got a different interpretation from the question. Is it possible to have a generic tank or apc icon or is the game system going to label it (ie. T62 or T72) on the initial spot? If the game engine is going to label it, you should just stick to a generic soldier icon. The icon will be the same tank for all the different Syrian tanks...Allies of course only have one type of tank each...the UI will eventually display what kind of tank it is but when targeting the tank itself or it's icon, it just says "enemy unit". In other words to know exactly what the unit is you have to click on it and look in the UI... I think the infantry idea is perfect. The ATGMs and Recoilless might be better with just the AT Icon...Pretty sure people will be able to ID them regardless of the Icon....same with armor and vehicles I thought about that but you don't always see the actual weapon...sometimes just the security or other guys in the team. I am glad I am getting some consensus on the armor and vehicles...LOL 'cause it's gonna be a PIA. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, I'm interested to see what you guys think of a mod like this. The primary break in the current FoW system is the floating 3D icon and, even then, pretty much for the foot units. Taking away the icons is actually very easy to do. In fact... try ALT-i in the game and they disappear completely Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveDash Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I think it would be a huge PIA for your own forces. You'd have to use the mod for enemy forces only. Quite often I call down area fire on a contact and do it from the enemies PoV, and I'm buggered if I'm clicking through 30 different infantry icons to find my HQ unit or FO. Also when you actually click on a unit, doesn't it give you information as to what it is? IE "1st Squad....Rifle" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Welp, I set it up so each nation has it's own folder and the player can just drop whatever enemy they are getting ready to fight in the z folder. Yeah, if you click on enemy unit it's gonna tell you who they are once you've spotted them long enough...however if you just target the icon or unit it won't tell you anything. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Nice idea, Mord. While I probably wouldn't use such a mod myself, I think I have some pertinent suggestions, namely: Make a set of mods to give the players some options to match it to their play style: 1.) Make one version where all infantry have the same icon. This would be for hardcore folks . 2.) Make a version where (at least some) heavy weapons have a separate icon. I'm thinking the heavy AT stuff like ATGMs and SPG-9 could share the AT icon with everything else sharing the standard inf icon. Possibly leave the MG icon in as well. This is for the people who don't want to have HQs identified immediately, but would like to know when they spot an ATGM without having to click on each contact to find out. 3.) Maybe an extra-hardcore version with vehicles all sharing one icon as well? I don't think this is particularly realistic, but maybe someone else wants it that way? 4.) Important: make a set each for Blue and Red, so people can switch back and forth depending on which side they are playing. that way it will only be the enemy icons that are changed. Possibly you will have to offer each icon individually with instructions for players on which files to replace with what to get the effect they want? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 My opinion is that this will be much more important for WWII than modern day (more cover, average soldier less well-schooled in differentiating the enemy -- EXCEPTION WWII snipers). But I never walk by a Mord mod without checking it out -- my CMSF experience wouldn't be the same without the cuss mod or the Allah's Army! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 My question is, Mord ol' pal: can you make [a version of] the mod with NATO icons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Stoex...I won't have much time to work on it and it would be just way too much of a PIA to attempt variations...just the troop stuff is confusing enough. Thanks for the compliment LLF. Dietrich...HA! I am having a hard enough time keeping the icons that actually look like something in perspective! Sorry, Brotha! NOOOOO way! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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