Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I am sure we can all relate to having an injured squad member tagging along 30 or 40 feet behind the rest of the squad and i was wondering if it was on "the list" to be able to detach them in mission and either leave them behind for overwatch/spotting or have them vanish to simulate being send back to a dressing station. I suspect the answer is no, but it certainly would be a welcome feature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I don't see why implementing that would be beneficial to the game, to be honest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 you don't see the practicality of having wounded squad members, slowing down an assault/being exposed to fire for much longer periods of time because they can't "drop out"? How do you deal with the problem then, if you don't see a problem? perhaps there is something to learn... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It's not my experience that the lightly wounded slow down their healthy buddies. Wounded soldiers tend to catch up sooner or later. I'd rather they straggle a bit then that they get taken away altogether. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 If the guy is that badly wounded that you leave him behind, he’s not going to be in any condition to provide overwatch or spot. A sucking chest wound tends to focus the mind on the chest and that’s it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 i think the next time if you observe an injured squad mate (yellow base) and have them advance several hundred meters you'll see better what i mean. the rest of the squad can clear a house and be advancing on the next objective and they'll still be lagging far behind, useless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I don’t need to, I’ve tended wounded on the ground. You don’t tend to abandon them (its bad for morale). If you are advancing guys “several hundred metres” and taking casualties before you get to you first objective perhaps you need to rethink the plan (or use smoke or some such to cover the move). Let alone clear one house and then ask these no doubt fatigued by now guys to clear subsequent buildings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Gibsonm it's like you're almost trying to misunderstand me There is no proposal to abandon them, merely take control of a function of the AI (red injured base plate, squad member is given buddy-aid and disappears; yellow base plate, squad member given buddy aid and carries on with the squad) If my forces are advancing, and my MG'er is wounded in the leg enough to slow him down but not merit returning to the aid station, it's hardly playing rambo-style to have the squad move down the hill, clear a small house (without casualties) and move on to the next objective and still be waiting for the injured squad member. I think there could be an option to either a) detach him from the squad and form a new unit, or make the call yourself and declare him "wounded" and he disappears. Sgts/Lts make determinations if a squad member can carry on i can attest to personally. Anyways, have a good one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sure and as a Major, yes you can make those determinations but it is certainly not the norm. I know because I’ve “been there, done that” (albeit in a current, not Second World War setting). I’m just saying the team (of whatever size) must stick together wherever possible. Yes there will be 10% cases where 1 guy (with someone to look after him) might be left behind but “normally” it wont happen. Leaving people behind is abandoning them (at least in their eyes). Normally you slow the group down to the speed of the slowest guy (be he wounded, the poor bloke lugging the Javelin [or other heavy piece of gear in whatever time period you pick] or whatever). Yes, it might be possible to code. No, it hasn’t been implemented. No, its not likely to be implemented as: - Its not something in the normal run of events - It would delay the project trying to code it and make sure it works properly. You have a nice afternoon too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 great answer thanks. I do assume that a change wouldn't happen the way i asked, but if we can't "make" the squad slow down ourselves (your reasonable answer) and if by code or morality we can't manually drop out team members to the aid station or to another attached unit humping rearguard, we have squad mates who are much more liable to be killed as they clamber far behind the rest of the squad. And though it might be splitting hairs, i am not saying to my pixeltruppen "sit here, i hope you're okay", but "we've cleared this far, make your way back 200 yards to the aid station". As i type it, i realize my suggestion may be impractical, but in two of my campaigns this is happening right now Sure and as a Major, yes you can make those determinations but it is certainly not the norm. I know because I’ve “been there, done that” (albeit in a current, not Second World War setting). I’m just saying the team (of whatever size) must stick together wherever possible. Yes there will be 10% cases where 1 guy (with someone to look after him) might be left behind but “normally” it wont happen. Leaving people behind is abandoning them (at least in their eyes). Normally you slow the group down to the speed of the slowest guy (be he wounded, the poor bloke lugging the Javelin [or other heavy piece of gear in whatever time period you pick] or whatever). Yes, it might be possible to code. No, it hasn’t been implemented. No, its not likely to be implemented as: - Its not something in the normal run of events - It would delay the project trying to code it and make sure it works properly. You have a nice afternoon too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 If detaching wounded isn't possible, would it be possible for crews of some heavy weapons like AT-missiles (in CMSF), AT-guns and mortars to abandon the weapon? A bit like tank crews can leave the tank and later return. This could be useful for example when the weapon no longer has any ammo. Then soldiers might move quicker and maybe this way be more useful with their remaining weapons. I guess Unacquire command would be the best thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 great answer thanks. I do assume that a change wouldn't happen the way i asked, but if we can't "make" the squad slow down ourselves (your reasonable answer) ... Well you can, just select a slower movement order and the wounded guy will usually catch up. Of course always a good thing to do the slow movement behind cover / concealment / out of contact. I wouldn’t suggest you pick “slow” just as you are crossing the open ground just before the objective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well you can, just select a slower movement order and the wounded guy will usually catch up. Of course always a good thing to do the slow movement behind cover / concealment / out of contact. I wouldn’t suggest you pick “slow” just as you are crossing the open ground just before the objective. 1) in the present scenario i am playing the squad will advance using the normal 'move' command; if i Hunt the squad will stop constantly and if i use Slow they will tire. 2) i would be perfectly happy if there was an averaged speed created for the squad where they all moved together but at a reduced speed. 3) LOL but this is one of my points; to conduct the mission your squad has to move fast at times. Very rarely is there an opportunity to move your squad under cover ALL the way... you've gotta FAST/ADVANCE at some point! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 3) LOL but this is one of my points; to conduct the mission your squad has to move fast at times. Very rarely is there an opportunity to move your squad under cover ALL the way... you've gotta FAST/ADVANCE at some point! At some point certainly, but resorting to it all the time suggests something messed up with the missions’ time and space. Moving “fast” all day in CM:SF is a great way to get heat exhaustion. But anyway I don’t know which scenario you are referring to so if you reckon you have to move fast nearly all the time, then you need to accept that your squads will start to break up (wounded or not). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 i move my squads almost exclusively using the Move command, not Fast. Using that command with a wounded squad mate will cause the wounded man to drop back farther and farther... My solution right now is usually to split the squad so that the wounded man is isolated but i hope for something better one day... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 i move my squads almost exclusively using the Move command, not Fast. Using that command with a wounded squad mate will cause the wounded man to drop back farther and farther... Agreed. Sorry I thought you meant you had to move “fast” all the time. Moving at “move” is certainly sustainable and as you say keeps the group together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I think people would not use this feature more than once or twice before never using it again. Lightly Wounded are still combat capable. I've won battles with a pretty large chunk of my guys in Yellow that I doubt I would have won without. And as Gibsonm points out, you're not going to leave behind a guy who has a fairly superficial wound just because. Maintaining combat power should be the #1 priority, not maintaining combat speed at the expense of power. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny(FGM) Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I have come across this problem, the main thing is when you have yellow guys in your assault teams and you need to plot complex orders with multiple waypoints, the guys have to wait at each waypoint and wait for the yellow guy to catch up. I've had this thought before, it's not so much of a problem in my overwatch teams as generally when I need to move them they can do so safely at any speed, but in the assault teams it could be a real pain in the ass. It'd be a nice feature, just to drop em from the squad and abstract it like casevac is, perhaps he just goes back and sits with Plt/Co/Bn HQ. Of course if the unit was cut off it'd be highly unrealistic but then again the game already allows us to do highly unrealistic things with our troops. I can understand its more than likely never gonna happen, but it would be nice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 I think people would not use this feature more than once or twice before never using it again. Lightly Wounded are still combat capable. I've won battles with a pretty large chunk of my guys in Yellow that I doubt I would have won without. And as Gibsonm points out, you're not going to leave behind a guy who has a fairly superficial wound just because. Maintaining combat power should be the #1 priority, not maintaining combat speed at the expense of power. Steve I agree that use would be less frequent, and should be at the bottom of some list but i personally think the problem is real. I too don't want to dump a man who has a broken pinky or bumped shin, but every yellow status man act like he's got a badly torn ACL. Thanks for the response. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 A final note: In the second mission of the Dutch campaign I gave my 6 man squad a Move command for 350m over open, flat ground. The wounded squad member was the Squad Leader armed with the G36; below is how far the injured member lagged behind at a simple walking pace over 5 minutes: After: Distance: 1 minute 7 meters 2 minute 16 meters 3 minute 22 meters 4 minute 38 meters 5 minute 67 meters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 and should be at the bottom of some list ... Don't say that, the list is pretty long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Which, in effect, means he is separated and not holding you back. What I usually do in these sorts of situations is slow down the pace of my moves. Especially when there's more than one man lightly wounded. Again, preservation of combat power means preserving combat effectiveness. It's a simple matter of math. 6 guns are more effective than 5 5 targets are for the enemy to focus on than 5 6 sets of eyes spot more than 5 sets Etc. I have never felt the need to leave lightly WIA behind because, I guess, I see that as just inviting more casualties. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ... below is how far the injured member lagged behind ... Well, yes. If you don't change your plan when the circumstances have changed, of course you're going to run into problems. What is that? Step 4 or 5 of the 7-step of the military appreciation process (or is it in mission analysis?) - "Has the situation Changed?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well, yes. If you don't change your plan when the circumstances have changed, of course you're going to run into problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Giving the player control over things they don't need control over is never, ever a good idea. And I mean that even if we could snap our fingers and have this in the game within 2 minutes. Each time a feature is added it requires work on our part (obviously) and work on the player's part. He needs to be educated about the feature existing in the first place, then he needs to figure out when/how to use it effectively. This means there is less development time and player attention to focus on other things, such as basic game elements and tactics that have to be mastered and used on a consistent basis. A feature like leaving behind combat capable soldiers is just not done in the real world, excepting exceptional circumstances. It's also extremely inadvisable from a game play standpoint almost all the time in any circumstance. So what you're suggesting is neither realistic nor is it good gaming practice. Therefore, including a feature like this is kind of like a Red Herring. People will waste time and energy trying to find a use for it when in fact there is almost none. Sorry, this is a feature request that isn't going to happen. It's simply not a viable idea. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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