Our friend the Taser

[dieseltaylor]

6. 10-year-old child tasered at day care: A young child at Tender Teddies Day Care in Martinsville, Indiana, who was “kicking and screaming” was, absurdly, tasered by police officers “to prevent [him] from hurting other children, staff members and himself.” The two responding officers were investigated for using excessive force.

http://www.alternet.org/story/149115/the_6_most_shocking_cases_of_police_stun-gun_abuse?page=1

Encouraging to see that after all the hoo-ha the device is not being misused : )

[Stalins Organ]

You don't think this is misuse?

(yeah I can be sarcastic too )

Anything is always going to be misused - even plastic cutlery can be misused. The test isnt' whether it is misused or not - but how often, and what is hte response to the misuse?

In this case the answers seem to be rarely, and appropraite.

So what's the actual point you are trying to snidle up to?

[JonS]

Anything is always going to be misused - even plastic cutlery can be misused. The test isn't whether it is misused or not - but how often, and what is the response to the misuse?

In this case the answers seem to be rarely, and appropriate.

By 'appropriate' do you mean that neither officer would face criminal charges?

[Stalins Organ]

Suspended and placed on probation is what I mean by "appropriate".

Feel free to pop over and become the public prosecutor there if you don't like it

In several other cases criminal or civil damages charges have been laid - even if the police Dept seems incompetent a civil suit for $750,000 seems like a fairly serious sanction.

[Affentitten]

To be honest, as a parent who has had two kids in day care, I would be seriously unhappy if the response of the childcare workers to a tantrum was to call the cops. I mean,a kid going a bit mental is hardly an uncommon thing to run into in your working day, is it?

We're having the same re-examination of tasers here in NSW at the moment. The issue is whether the taser doctrine has shifted from the original concept of non-lethal take-down of an individual threatening to harm others or themself and has morphed into a weapon of 'compliance'. ie. officers tasering people who are resisiting arrest, mouthing off or otherwise just pissing a cop off on a bad day.

[JonS]

We're having the same re-examination of tasers here in NSW at the moment. The issue is whether the taser doctrine has shifted from the original concept of non-lethal take-down of an individual threatening to harm others or themself and has morphed into a weapon of 'compliance'. ie. officers tasering people who are resisiting arrest, mouthing off or otherwise just pissing a cop off on a bad day.

That's been the experience pretty much everywhere they've been fielded, but depending on who's doing the 're-examination' it's probably safe to assume they'll get the big thumbs up Fvckers. It's BS like this that destroys trust between the police and those they'd attempt to police.

[Michael Emrys]

Mace has a somewhat similar history of abuse.

Michael

[JonS]

Mace has a somewhat similar history of abuse.

Yeah, but he's Australian so that's pretty much expected.

Poor abused sheep

[costard]

Yeah, but he's Australian so that's pretty much expected.

Poor abused sheep

Must have been a Kiwi cop.

[JonS]

induitably

[Stalins Organ]

We're having the same re-examination of tasers here in NSW at the moment. The issue is whether the taser doctrine has shifted from the original concept of non-lethal take-down of an individual threatening to harm others or themself and has morphed into a weapon of 'compliance'. ie. officers tasering people who are resisiting arrest, mouthing off or otherwise just pissing a cop off on a bad day.

Yes - I think this is somethign that needs to be stamped on - the "police culture" needs to think of tasers in eth original context.

I dont' think we've had any problems like that in NZ......yet...there is certainly some fear of tasers & a vocal campaign to do away with them, but I dont' recall any accounts of them being used in the compliance sense you identify - or at least no outrage over it!

[Affentitten]

We got tasers after a couple of high profile cases where seriously mentally ill people having a psychotic episode had lunged at cops with a butter knife or something and the police had little other option than to gun them down. But since then we've had our share of taser-related deaths, cases of people being handcuffed on the floor and still tasered because they're being verbally abusive and cases of people being tasered like 15 times just for the sheer hell of it.

On the other hand, some of our cops don't even need a taser to have fun http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319762/Police-release-CCTV-video-Australian-officer-Benjamin-Price-inflicting-water-torture-suspect.html#ixzz129xvpvSq

[JonS]

I dont' think we've had any problems like that in NZ ... yet ... there is certainly some fear of tasers & a vocal campaign to do away with them' date=' but I dont' recall any accounts of them being used in the compliance sense you identify - or at least no outrage over it![/quote']

The initial 12 month 'trial' here was a sham - the report written at the conclusion had examples of taser being used for compliance, but it got whitewashed. At the time I was thinking "FFS guys, this trial is your chance to show you can be trusted with these things and you're screwing it up", but they got them anyway :mad:

[hoolaman]

That's been the experience pretty much everywhere they've been fielded, but depending on who's doing the 're-examination' it's probably safe to assume they'll get the big thumbs up Fvckers. It's BS like this that destroys trust between the police and those they'd attempt to police.

Yeah there was recently a story in the news from WA (not washington) where they changed the guidelines for taser use from risk of "harm" to risk of "serious harm" after they tased that aboriginal bloke 48 times for being a bit disorderly. The police union was up in arms (pun not intended) because they reckon they will have to start shooting people and bashing them with batons again.

I think it really should be a matter of choosing between the gun and the taser and in similar situations.

[Stalins Organ]

The initial 12 month 'trial' here was a sham - the report written at the conclusion had examples of taser being used for compliance, but it got whitewashed. At the time I was thinking "FFS guys, this trial is your chance to show you can be trusted with these things and you're screwing it up", but they got them anyway :mad:

Which part of the report is the whitewash??

From the report:

Accountability

Members are individually, criminally responsible, by virtue of Section 62 of the Crimes Act 1961, for the use of any excess force during the course of their duties. Members may also be subject to internal disciplinary action for any excess use of force.

• An overriding principle guiding the use of an EMI device is that it can only be used in situations within and beyond the Assaultive range, as outlined in the Tactical Options Framework.

• Under no circumstances is the device to be used to induce compliance with an uncooperative but otherwise non-aggressive person.

[JonS]

the report is the whitewash?

The part you quoted, for starters.

Reading the report to determine whether the report is flawed is poor methodology. Something about a tautology, I think.

[Stalins Organ]

I don't see what is a whitewash about the bit I quoted - it stated the policy and pootential consequences for breaching it. As a guideline it seem very clear cut.

I'm impressed that you can judge a report without reading it tho - is this a skill that can be taught? I would go to chemtrailers who can see the chemicals without measuring them to learn it, but your version seems so much more practical as an everyday skill.

[Affentitten]

There could potentially be a disconnect though if the report is giving the official go-ahead for tasers when during the trial period there were breaches of doctrine. ie. saying what they should or shouldn't be used for in the report might just be stating the bleeding obvious and an arse covering exercise. If we all know that these things are being constantly used for compliance, what's the point of just rubber stamping their deployment?

[JonS]

Wot Aff sed.

[dieseltaylor]

in·du·bi·ta·ble adj. Too apparent to be doubted; unquestionable.

in·dubi·ta·bly adv.

Of course there may be another spelling ....

[Affentitten]

I think that correcting someone's spelling on a web forum is really pissing into the wind. Especially when you're correcting someone like JonS, who is demonstrably not an idiot. Plus you're also making the claim that you will never make a spelling or typo yourself from now on.

Now I have just accepted a job offer in Melbourne and have to move down there in January. I am trying to find a house to rent and dealing with 20 year old farktard property managers that cannot spell 'verandah' or 'terrace'. THAT to me is more worthy of correction.

[dieseltaylor]

I am sure JonS just had a momentary aberration but for those on the forum where English is not their native language I think it helpful to provide the proper word. : )

Estate agents!!!! Property managers!!! argh

What winds me up hugely around here is leaflet drops saying we can sell your house and they cannot even get the street name correct. Ok so they are 0.5mile away, its in small print on maps, and did call at their office two years ago to mention it was not very professional.

Rsholes.

Congrats on the job though, presumably makes life complicated for a time.

[Stalins Organ]

There could potentially be a disconnect though if the report is giving the official go-ahead for tasers when during the trial period there were breaches of doctrine. ie. saying what they should or shouldn't be used for in the report might just be stating the bleeding obvious and an arse covering exercise. If we all know that these things are being constantly used for compliance, what's the point of just rubber stamping their deployment?

you are right - that COULD be the case.

And if it is then I'd expect there to be an argument as to why it is the case - not "Reading the report to see if it is a whitewash is flawed methodology" or words to that effect.

Are we just supposed to take JonS's word for it?

[noxnoctum]

I firmly believe that a lot of the bullies we all remember from elementary, middle, high school go into the police force... where they can continue it legally and get a nice power high to boot. At least in the States.

Personal example (not nearly as nuts as the one in the OP by diesel but still), was in a large bike "race" (not really a competition, just the fun of biking with a TON of people)... over 500 bikers in San Jose, CA. The police were supposed to stop traffic for us. The SJ police did their job... when we got to another town we all ran a red light en masse simply because we couldn't slam on brakes with that many people (we were literally riding shoulder to shoulder... I'd say 5-10 feet from each other). If we'd tried to stop it would have been a MASSIVE bike traffic wreck. Someone might have gotten killed, many would have DEFINITELY gotten injured. A police cruiser was at the red light and turned on his lights. Everyone else sped up and ran around the corner, but me and my dumbass friend, being the "good citizens" that we are pulled over, put our bikes down and sat on the curb.

Cops pulled up next to us, got out, and pulled their batons on us, despite the fact that we had shown ZERO hostile intent. (after all we were the only ones that pulled over when they flashed their lights). Anyways... both got tickets, I asked one how much it would be... he said $400. Flat out lie, it was about $120 IIRC. Then they had the nerve to say they were "protecting us". Ya... by pulling their batons on us LOL. If we'd stopped at the red light we would have gotten run over.

Anyways, that's the day my naiveté about the police force went out the window.

And then there's classics like these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg

And the more recent:

But nothing compared to a TEN YEAR OLD BEING TASERED. These guys need to be thrown in jail ASAP. None of this "suspended without pay" BS that happens so often.

They really need to seriously restrict the "ROE" for use of tasers and all weapons periods, lethal or non-lethal. Also some major psychological profiling of every candidate for the force needs to be implemented. Course it won't happen, cause it costs $$$, and our government would rather spend that in the Middle East launching $40,000 javelins at dudes in caves with AK47s.

[JonS]

Dude. I live here. I followed the intro and trial quite closely, and was pissed off with the resulting report.

I certainly reccomend that you NOT take my word for it, and do your own research*. But equally I reccomend that you assume I know WTF I'm talking about.

JonS

* Hint: reading the police report which claims everything is just rosy and the police can be trusted to be good - in spite of the evidence - doesn't count as 'research'. The report is a useful step, but a single step doesn't make a journey.