The Future of CMx2 Mulitplayer

[MeatEtr]

No I'm not talking about 2vs2 or 4vs4. Why bother, it's hard enough finding a single opponent. I'm talking about a MP lobby for all BF published games or maybe just the CMx1 and 2 series.

It would be great if something like this could be implemented into the in-game MP option of future CMx2 titles.

Sure signing up on ladders/clubs still works and will never go away as they not only provide opponents but camaraderie as well. Or even using Tunngle or Hamachi works partially. But it seems there would or could be many more MPers out there if it was made brain-dead easy. At least for the casual mainstream players out there.

I do recall few years ago Moon/Steve talking about eventually wanting to make the MP feature much easier for players to hookup. Any new updates or plans for a MP lobby or something?

[Tactical Wargamer]

I agree long over due.

[gibsonm]

Well I doubt it while half of the TCP/IP functionality (namely WEGO) is still "broken".

And that's just to get the "status quo" working.

If by "multiplayer" you are thinking of co-op play (with more than one player per side) then I think you have a much longer wait in store due to the coding issues.

[panzermartin]

+1

Just a step above IP sharing with an in built chat and lobby or something will be great. And some sort of pause/time ous for the game itself.

(I think I have typed this sentence over 10 times the last 2-3 yrs )

[Pandur]

get in TCP/IP WEGO with replay ASAP. RT is working well enough since long time, and even when it is functioning, it attracts barely anyone to play MP.

i myself am fed up with hosing down the AI. i would have purchased CMA, NATO module and the oncomming CM:Normandy without looking twice if we had TCP/IP WEGO by now. but CMSF+marines+brits is all i need, unfortunately, as long as there is no fun multiplayer for me.

i fear the roadmap would show a verry long way towards TCP/IP with replay. i am looking forward to the east front titles, thats what i am waiting for after all, but if east front still does not have TCP/IP WEGOwR, it will be utter dissapointment for me.

PS.:

and to everyone supposeing a RTwP multiplayer for CMx2...better forgett it, it wont work out in a fun way, or none that i can think of.

[BFCElvis]

PS.:

and to everyone supposeing a RTwP multiplayer for CMx2...better forgett it, it wont work out in a fun way, or none that i can think of.

I was playing a TCP game yesterday and at one point really wanted it to stop/pause for just a minute to collect my thoughts (they get scattered easily) Just a few moments to check out what is going on in all areas to make sure I'm not missing something obvious.

[Lethaface]

RTwp MP would sound very good in my ears! And a basic MP lobby would to!

Perhaps sourceforge has some project available for free?

[gibsonm]

Fill your boots.

[Pandur]

Just a few moments to check out what is going on in all areas to make sure I'm not missing something obvious.

and there is the problem with it. it pauses not only your game, but also the game of your enemy. and then right after you unpause, your enemy decides to pause for 2 min to look up this and that.

is no one seeing where this will go? i already played a RTwP game in multiplayer and it was the "most disruptive" gameplay i ever had.

ever wondered why you cant pause in total war series multiplayer while you can in single player?

imagine this in a competative background. you can get a LOT more out of your troops when you pause regulary and the more you pause the more fine grained your input and orders will be. even if you try to use less pause, you and your opponent will spiral into a pause frenzy, with shorter and shorter "interrupts" till the whole game takes longer then a WEGO battle, and is essentialy paused a verry long time.

not to sound fanboyish here, but i am really sad no one sees the simple brilliance of WEGO anymore. in essence its exactly what you guys want, RT, has pause(fixed) and a 1 minute replay. but voices cry for more

[MeatEtr]

Well we should have a pause option for RT TCP/IP. Just like how CMx1 did it with timed turns, somebody requests a pause and the other either accepts or declines. Getting a phone call or somebody knocking on the front door does happen while playing.

[panzermartin]

Yes, that would be the ideal solution. Depending on the scenario each player gets a "time point pool", say 1000pts/ secs for a 30 mins game, to pause and make some more thought out moves. It wont be unlimited so you will have to be a little cautious. This will allow more combined tactics possible. Right now its not possbile to have more than one tank shoot and scoot at the same time for instance, unless you miromanage pause orders which is a bit tedious.

CMx1 TCP/IP had it, 10 yrs ago. It will be just like Wego but with no replay but the bonus to adjust orders on the fly.

[Pandur]

@MeatEtr

sure phone call and all that, but when we leave the real life interrupts out of the picture, after all one should not implement something to a game becouse you could get a RL phone call, i think, we are left with the fact that it is A; not optimal to have a pop up coming up asking for a yes/no click for pause in the heat of battle, and B; ones opponent wont give a damn about your pause request while he is kicking your butt.

so asking your opponent for pause leaves you at his mercy and he may choose to never allow pause to you at all, if he likes.

i dont think this would work out.

@Ali-Baba

the pause time pool limit is what the game had i played, called E5 Brigade. problem was that the pause limit was usually set that high so you did not need to worry a bout it anymore, becouse players did not want to worry about pause.

the less pause was available, the more the fight evolved into tricking or forcing the opponent into pause to make him use up his while you can also use his pause for changes. at the same time you tried to minimize your pause consumption as the enemy is able to use your pause for his plans. at this point it was fun also to hit pause repeatedly on/off so the other player has a hard time clicking his running units or issuing orders in some cases.

but i found it to be disturbingly distracting from the actual tactics and intended gameplay. when pause was in short supply pause was a objective to fight about that domminated the gameplay a lot.

so, while it sounds good on paper, the pause time pool did not work out in this game verry good in my eyes. and since CMx2 games are much larger in scope but still offer a lot of depth that needs thought through control input at some points, it promotes the use of lots of pause, so i can see it not working all too well in CMx2 games.

[stoex]

@ Pandur

I get how you think these ideas are no good. The way you describe it they might not be depending on how people make use of them. However, the key to any such mechanics is to make them non-mandatory. That way players can communicate about their preferences before starting, set the game up accordingly, and not have a problem either way. Or not play the game if their preferences do not match. Just the same as it is now .

I agree it's not a good idea to force such concepts onto players who don't wish to use them - unfortunately ROE and other game parameters as options is something BF does not have a great track record in providing. The choice between WeGo and RT in CMSF is but a first step in the right direction as far as I am concerned. Many other options are possible...

[MeatEtr]

@MeatEtr

sure phone call and all that, but when we leave the real life interrupts out of the picture, after all one should not implement something to a game becouse you could get a RL phone call, i think, we are left with the fact that it is A; not optimal to have a pop up coming up asking for a yes/no click for pause in the heat of battle, and B; ones opponent wont give a damn about your pause request while he is kicking your butt.

so asking your opponent for pause leaves you at his mercy and he may choose to never allow pause to you at all, if he likes.

i dont think this would work out.

Pandur, have you played CMx1 TCP/IP with timed turns? Because I have a ton of times and never had problems with it, ever. The opponent you describe is exactly the kind I, and probably most others wouldn't want to play with anyway. So to say no to a feature like this mainly because players could possibly abuse/ignore it doesn't make sense to me.

[gibsonm]

not to sound fanboyish here, but i am really sad no one sees the simple brilliance of WEGO anymore.

I think that's a bit of a generalisation.

There are certainly a lot of beta testers nudging for TCP/IP WEGO so I'd replace "no one" with something else.

The fact is that it apperantly will take a lot of coding to include this so your choices seem to be:

1. Abandon work on CM:Normandy so they can focus on it (I'm sure that wont be a popular choice).

2. Wait an excessivley long time for it to be included in CM:SF NATO / Normandy (again not popular).

3. Accept the fact that people are working on it but that it will take some time to implement.

It certainly has not been forgotten on my side of the fence.

[panzermartin]

Pandur, there must be certain ways to prevent abusing the pause feature. Say, each pause should be no less than 1 minute and intervals between allowed pauses should be over a minute too (example). So, you will be able to plan but not to lead your opponent to destroy his PC with a baseball bat But as MeatEtr said, opponents like that are not very common in CMx2 community, 95% of the people I've played online here are quite mature. Other solutions are fixed pauses, enforced by the game.

I'm all for the return of TCP/IP wego, but I'm not fond of the idea of spending that much time playing CM battles like I did with 6 hours CMBO/BB/AK sessions some yrs ago. Paused RT sounds like a nice compromise between the two. It would be heaven if we could play this great engine in WW2, with these online enhancments and a dedicated lobby.

[Ribosom]

Just a quick idea I haven´t really thought through: What about pausing the game every minute just like WEGO to give general orders. Then the game is unpaused you can control the game in RT and take care of the 'hotspots'. Would that work?

[Jonny(FGM)]

The fact is that it apperantly will take a lot of coding to include this

I fail to see why it would take so much coding

We already have the TCP/IP protocols

We already have WEGO

All they need to do is send that file down the TCP/IP protocols, I would imagine this can't take THAT much coding

Of course if someone from BF would care to explain why i am wrong . . . .

[Tactical Wargamer]

get in TCP/IP WEGO with replay ASAP. RT is working well enough since long time, and even when it is functioning, it attracts barely anyone to play MP.

i myself am fed up with hosing down the AI. i would have purchased CMA, NATO module and the oncomming CM:Normandy without looking twice if we had TCP/IP WEGO by now. but CMSF+marines+brits is all i need, unfortunately, as long as there is no fun multiplayer for me.

i fear the roadmap would show a verry long way towards TCP/IP with replay. i am looking forward to the east front titles, thats what i am waiting for after all, but if east front still does not have TCP/IP WEGOwR, it will be utter dissapointment for me.

PS.:

and to everyone supposeing a RTwP multiplayer for CMx2...better forgett it, it wont work out in a fun way, or none that i can think of.

+2

I find the games less enjoyable bashing the AI. MP is where it is at. Real time is fun for small fast engagements among lighting fast keyboarders. But that is not me nor the 7 players I LAN with. WEGO with replay #1 I think for the MP community IMHO.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Well we should have a pause option for RT TCP/IP. Just like how CMx1 did it with timed turns, somebody requests a pause and the other either accepts or declines. Getting a phone call or somebody knocking on the front door does happen while playing.

Hey I would take anything that gets away from the RT click fest......anything !! Pause/Wego/Variable speed setting just something for the MP community!!

[Tactical Wargamer]

I think that's a bit of a generalisation.

There are certainly a lot of beta testers nudging for TCP/IP WEGO so I'd replace "no one" with something else.

The fact is that it apperantly will take a lot of coding to include this so your choices seem to be:

1. Abandon work on CM:Normandy so they can focus on it (I'm sure that wont be a popular choice).

2. Wait an excessivley long time for it to be included in CM:SF NATO / Normandy (again not popular).

3. Accept the fact that people are working on it but that it will take some time to implement.

It certainly has not been forgotten on my side of the fence.

You are our leader we prasie you master gibsonm!!

Do not forget your loyal subjects........

[gibsonm]

I fail to see why it would take so much coding

We already have the TCP/IP protocols

We already have WEGO

All they need to do is send that file down the TCP/IP protocols, I would imagine this can't take THAT much coding

Of course if someone from BF would care to explain why i am wrong . . .

Well I'm by no means an "official source" but the responses I've received to date refer to file size, etc.

Basically (AIUI) WEGO TCP/IP needs file sizes roughly equivalent to the email files (which if you hadn't noticed are now much bigger than CMX1 ones) in order to:

1. Allowed for the "replay" feature of WEGO and

2. Do all the "round tracking", etc. that the new engine provides.

The problem appears to be accommodating the sending back and forth of many multi MB files each and every turn without performance becoming glacial (and minimising disruption due to file corruption, etc.).

[Jonny(FGM)]

I'm still not buying it

Back in the day PBEM files for CMBB/CMAK would have been "huge" too

Personally I don't care if the data transfer stage takes 5 minutes, its still going to be quicker than PBEM

[gibsonm]

I'm still not buying it

Well that's your right of course.

Back in the day PBEM files for CMBB/CMAK would have been "huge" too.

Sure but in CMSF you get 10 - 15 Mb files for just a platoon clearing building, if you go to equivalent scale of "To the VOLGA" they become several hundred MB in size.