A couple more Air Asset questions.

[Sequoia]

First off I want to say I am happy we got ANY Red air assets. I agree the Syrian Air Force would be unable able to fly any Air Support sorties that actually reach the target area. It's great to have them though for Red vs Red. That said I believe the Syrians already had some MiG 29 and Su 24 in squadrons in 2008. Wasn't it we got Red Air because the work was already done for Afghanistan and the Afghanistan game doesn't have MiG 29s or SU 24s?

That would be a fair enough answer for me.

Likewise however I believe the Germans already had some Typhoon squadrons in 2008. Since we already have Typhoons for the UK, it seemes it would be easy to add them for the Germans even if they had only one squadron. I agree it would be unlikely for the Germans to send their F-4 squadrons into the war.

Finally however let me make my Bo 105 pitch again. I would rather see German Bo 105s than German Typhoons as that seems even more likely.

[phil stanbridge]

There is at least one blue v red scenario in NATO which features red air support, and yes, it is devastating. I am getting owned by it.

[Waaarg]

There is at least one blue v red scenario in NATO which features red air support, and yes, it is devastating. I am getting owned by it.

O.O what campaign?

[Eagle2]

O.O what campaign?

I'm pretty sure its one of the stand alone missions, though I can't remember which one.

[phil stanbridge]

Yeah it's a single mission as the Germans (Bier und Brezel). It's battalion sized and enormous. Fantastic huge open map. It's a really difficult scenario believe me. It took me an hour just in the setup phase. I'm on a knife edge here and might not win this one. Without spoiling it for others, I lost a full platoon and support weapons/vehicles to a twin air attack in just 3 minutes. It's a bit surreal because it *feels* like one of the old huge missions in CMBO or CMAK just with modern forces.

[Praetori]

Yeah it's a single mission as the Germans (Bier und Brezel). It's battalion sized and enormous. Fantastic huge open map. It's a really difficult scenario believe me. It took me an hour just in the setup phase. I'm on a knife edge here and might not win this one. Without spoiling it for others, I lost a full platoon and support weapons/vehicles to a twin air attack in just 3 minutes. It's a bit surreal because it *feels* like one of the old huge missions in CMBO or CMAK just with modern forces.

The key, as always. Is to keep everything and everyone deployed. Armor has speed and can go from cover to cover faster than a FOB can point CAS onto their position. Trees and urban terrain seems to help some as well, but that could just be my imagination.

[phil stanbridge]

It's interesting you mention 'deployment' because I decided to play this slightly differently. I don't want to spoil it for others, but let's just say it didn't work quite as I intended, although my eagerness in the early stages of the mission may just have helped out latterly. I tried to get everything out of the hot zone as quickly as I could. But it didn't work. It's a 2 hour + mission by the way. Epic on several levels. I just can't get over that red air support though. I'm going to delve into the editor once I have finished this because it's crazy. Like every 10 minutes or so I'm being attacked by various red air assets, and not just one aircraft either! It puts a really different angle on a scenario.

What I have established so far - tree coverage definitely helps, thicker the better, but urban areas less so it would seem. Unless you advance your heavy stuff immediately you are aware of an air attack you are going to pay for it - generally though, I am not aware of an attack until it's too late so there's not much you can do. Keep stuff hidden as much as possible, and try to keep infantry deployed in buildings, rather than outside. And by god spread your stuff out I discovered the hard way not to bunch up.

[MikeyD]

MiG29 and SU24 are primarily air interceptors, aren't they? That would put them out of the scope of ground combat operations. The Americans don't have B1Bs, B2s, or B52s in the game either. But the important thing is the ordnance falling on the map. If a MiG29 were to drop an iron bomb it would most probably be the same type bomb dropped by a SU-25.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

The Su-24 Fencer is a dedicated ground attack aircraft. Its reasonably similiar to the F-111.

[Sequoia]

I'm not positive if the Syrian's even had their SU-24s and MiG 29s in 2008 as they don't have very many now, but I was hoping some one would know. I'm not positive the German Typhhoon squadrons were operational yet. There's nothing I could find to confirm either on the web. Again I'm happy for any Red Air. I agree B-1's B-2's and B-52's shouldn't be in the game nor should German F-4's. But thanks for the opportunity to once again pitch my pet project: The German Bo 105!

[MARS42]

Hello,

1. The Typhoon was in service in 2008, but is only used as "Abfangjäger", means fighter against other planes. So, instead of the Tornado, the Typhoon

makes not much sense in the game.

2. The BO 105 is good against tanks, but has no weapons for supporting the Ground-troops like other helicopters, so the joice was to use the systems from other NATO-Partners. As a result, you will find a few Dutch Apache in some german missions.

Greets, MARS42

[Noltyboy]

I'm not positive if the Syrian's even had their SU-24s and MiG 29s in 2008 as they don't have very many now, but I was hoping some one would know. I'm not positive the German Typhhoon squadrons were operational yet. There's nothing I could find to confirm either on the web. Again I'm happy for any Red Air. I agree B-1's B-2's and B-52's shouldn't be in the game nor should German F-4's. But thanks for the opportunity to once again pitch my pet project: The German Bo 105!

Think of the chaos if a B52 did an attack run!!

[Sequoia]

Hello,

1. The Typhoon was in service in 2008, but is only used as "Abfangjäger", means fighter against other planes. So, instead of the Tornado, the Typhoon

makes not much sense in the game.

2. The BO 105 is good against tanks, but has no weapons for supporting the Ground-troops like other helicopters, so the joice was to use the systems from other NATO-Partners. As a result, you will find a few Dutch Apache in some german missions.

Greets, MARS42

Thanks for your answer. Sure the Apache is nicer but if all the Germans have are Bo 105s I'd at least like to see it as an option especially as the Dutch only have 30 Apaches in their entire military. And TOW missiles can come in very handy even if there is no mini gun. Oh well I guess I'll have to live with it and pretend th Apaches are US as that would be more likely.

[Praetori]

It's interesting you mention 'deployment' because I decided to play this slightly differently. I don't want to spoil it for others, but let's just say it didn't work quite as I intended, although my eagerness in the early stages of the mission may just have helped out latterly. I tried to get everything out of the hot zone as quickly as I could. But it didn't work. It's a 2 hour + mission by the way. Epic on several levels. I just can't get over that red air support though. I'm going to delve into the editor once I have finished this because it's crazy. Like every 10 minutes or so I'm being attacked by various red air assets, and not just one aircraft either! It puts a really different angle on a scenario.

What I have established so far - tree coverage definitely helps, thicker the better, but urban areas less so it would seem. Unless you advance your heavy stuff immediately you are aware of an air attack you are going to pay for it - generally though, I am not aware of an attack until it's too late so there's not much you can do. Keep stuff hidden as much as possible, and try to keep infantry deployed in buildings, rather than outside. And by god spread your stuff out I discovered the hard way not to bunch up.

When I play as opfor I usually go for the old trick of snuggling up all close and cozy with the blue team. That usually keeps both arty and air away. I have never tried it as blue though. Might be interesting but the advantage of Blue's more advanced and accurate weaponry will go to waste. But if it's the mission I think it is I'm starting to wonder if it's not a fair trade.

[ZPB II]

Talking about air, what's the deal with the Tiger? French got them operational but Germans don't?

Wikipedia says "At the end of 2003, deliveries began of the 80 UHT version combat support helicopters ordered by Germany to the Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement. Due to technical problems, operational capability is not expected to be achieved before the end of 2012 at the latest" but apparently the French got plenty of them, even a few operating in Afghanistan.