toxic.zen Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 ok, i setup a basic map (contact me if you want to download it and try for yourself) plootens(at)comcast.net one half was flat the other half had an incline of 1 every square up to 100. on both sides I had one Army squad with only the starting gear designated as #1, one Army squad loaded to the hilt with javelins at launchers, and ammo from the stryker designated as #2, and a M240B machine gun unit designated as #3. Follows is the results of the run at full speed test: 1 minute FLAT SIDE: all tired all neck and neck. HILL SIDE: #1 and #2 neck and neck, #3 just a step behind 2 minute's FLAT SIDE: all tired no difference in distance. HILL SIDE: #1 and #3 maybe a step ahead of #2 all tired. 3 minute's FLAT SIDE: #2 and #3 matched neck and neck, #1 a small step ahead all tired. HILL SIDE: #1 and #3 evenly a step ahead of #2, #1 and #3 tired, #2 fatigued. 4 minute's FLAT SIDE: #1 slight lead over #2 and #3, #2 and #3 neck and neck all fatigued. HILL SIDE: #1 and #3 neck and neck and fatigued. #2 exhausted and now walking, i stop #2 to time recovery. 5 minute's FLAT SIDE: #1, #2, #3 more or less even all fatigued. HILL SIDE: #1 slight lead over #3 both walking with exhaustion, i stop them to time recovery. #2 now fatigued again. 6 minute's FLAT SIDE: # 1 has lead, #2 and #3 tied. All three now stopped with exhaustion to time recovery. HILL SIDE: #1 and #3 now fatigued #2 now tired. 7 minute's FLAT SIDE: #1, #2, #3 all now fatigued HILL SIDE: #1, #2, #3 all now tired. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Interesting, thanks for posting it. Did you record recovery times. From what was said in the other thread suggests that recovery times will have the more marked difference. And then on following exertions heavy squads would possibly burn out quicker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Just did a recovery time test. 3 sqauds all +1 fitness, ran them all at quick untill all tired. 1 sqaud all loaded with striker AT and 5.56 2 squad loaded with all AT 3 squad no extra Squad 1 squad 2 squad 3 squad tired to tiring 2min 2min 1min tired to Ready 4 min 3min 3min 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Seems like the difference is too subtle to notice much. Same issue with the leadership values. In CM1 one really saw a difference due to HQ values. In CM2, it seems designers usually give everyone the same values - rather boring. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.zen Posted September 26, 2010 Author Share Posted September 26, 2010 my results with the test I ran were the same. although on the hill side the unit #2 with the extra ammo and AT assets did go from tired to fatigued before the other two the difference was only a couple seconds, and even then they ALL recovered from exhausted to fatigued to tired at the same rate! it looks like what was intended when Steve said: "Correct, the effect of the extra weight is on the endurance, not the speed of the unit." didnt come through with the actual game play... they all ran just as far just as quickly and recovered at the same rate. what little differences were present were really small... I could run test again a few times and see if results vary more, but i doubt they will... if anyone wants to use the setup i used to see for yourself, I can send it to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Erwin, yes the impact of short tests suggest marginal difference. toxic.zen I try not to push my sqads past tired so at the moment I may as well load them down as it's quicker to recover than to get back to an AFV in wego. That said, to be certain I'd like to see a longer test to see if the effects are cumulative and impact more severely after an hour or so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 There is a difference and the quick tests done so far show that. Arguably we could increase the differences in fatigue recovery. I can't defend our numbers as scientific, but rather done with gameplay in mind. Grogs advocating radical recovery times don't have to answer emails which state "this game sux" or "this game is broken" when a unit sits around exhausted "forever" (e.g. 5 minutes of actual gametime) Try the test with sub-optimal Fitness levels and see what you see. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 OK, FITNESS level -2 1 squad al striker AT, 40 mm, and 5.56 2 squad all AT 3 squad no extra all squads went to fatigued in first minute at quick. Recovery: squad.....................1 squad.........2 squad..........3 sqad fatigued to tired ........4 min...........4min...............3min tired to tiring.............12................11...................10 tiring to ready............16...............15...................15 Longer times but suggesting not enough differential to bother too much about overloading squads. That said I moved them off qiuick again and the heavy squad went straight to exhausted while the other two went to fatigued again. The test ran out of time but the exhasted again went to tired not much after squads 2 an 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meade95 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Interesting tests - With that said, I still belive units tire (especially fit level, veteran, crack and elite) units way to quickly, when moving slowly, crawling any distance at all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Interesting tests - With that said, I still belive units tire (especially fit level, veteran, crack and elite) units way to quickly, when moving slowly, crawling any distance at all... Seems fine to me, crawling around is utterly exhausting, especially with any kind of load. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 deleted per user request 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.zen Posted September 27, 2010 Author Share Posted September 27, 2010 i will run more test's going past the initial recovery time, and showing long term effects. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Just did a recovery time test. 3 sqauds all +1 fitness, ran them all at quick untill all tired. 1 sqaud all loaded with striker AT and 5.56 2 squad loaded with all AT 3 squad no extra Squad 1 squad 2 squad 3 squad tired to tiring 2min 2min 1min tired to Ready 4 min 3min 3min Sorry guys I made an error here, it was late at night. It's a minor error but thought that I'd let you know: they were all normal fitness not +1. toxic.zen- looking forward to your longer test. I'm changing my play based on this to load the squads with much more. At the moment the tests suggest that a little tweaking may be in order because it looks like little practical disincentive not to overload squads with Rambo ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.zen Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 OK this is on the same map same parameters. warm day, regular stryker infantry, normal fitness, normal motivation, 0 leadership. #1 is a squad with the normal starting equipment, #2 is a squad with all the extras from the Stryker, and #3 is a M240B machine gun unit. one side is on flat ground the other is climbing a hill elevating by one each meter. whenever a unit becomes fatigued I stop them and allow them to recover to a ready state. 1 min FLAT: 1,2,3 all tired and tied in distance. HILL: 1,2,3 tired and 3 is a step behind. 2 min FLAT: 1,2,3 all tired and tied. HILL: 1,2,3 tired and 1 is a step ahead of the others now. 3 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired and tied. HILL: 1,2 fatigued and stopped 3 tired. 4 min FLAT: 1,2,3, fatigued and stopped 1,3 tied in the lead, 2 is close behind. HILL: 1,2 tired 3 fatigued and stopped. 5 min FLAT: 1,2 tired 3 still fatigued. HILL: 1,2 tired 3 fatigued. 6 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired. HILL: 1,2,3 tired. 7 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired. HILL: 1,2 tiring 3 tired. 8 min FLAT: 1,3 tiring, 2 tired. HILL: 1,2 tiring 3 tired. 9 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tiring. HILL: 1,2 ready off and running again, 3 tiring. 10 min FLAT: 1,3 ready and running, 2 tiring. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 tiring. 11 min FLAT: 1,3 tired, 2 ready and running, 1 is in the lead. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 ready and running again. 12 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired 1 in lead and 2 is way behind. HILL: 1,2 fatigued and stopped, 3 tired, 1 is in the lead. 13 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired 1 in lead. HILL: 1,2,3 tired 3 catches up to others. 14 min FLAT: 1,2 tired 3 fatigued and stopped. HILL: 1,2 tired 3 fatigued and stopped. 3 in lead. 15 min FLAT: 1,3 fatigued and stopped, 3 tired. in still in lead. HILL: 1,2,3 all tired. 16 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired. HILL: 1 tiring, 2,3 tired. 17 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired. HILL: 1,2 tiring, 3 tired. 18 min FLAT: 1,2, tired, 3 tiring. HILL: 1,2 ready and running, 3 tiring. 19 min FLAT: 1 tired, 2,3 tiring. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 tiring, 1 in lead. 20 min FLAT: 1,2 tiring, 3 ready and running. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 ready and running, 1 still in lead. 21 min FLAT: 1,2 ready and running, 3 tired and in lead. HILL: 1,2 fatigued and stopped, 3 tired, 1 has a strong lead. 22 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired, 3 small lead. HILL: 1,2,3 tired. 23 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired, 1 has a small lead. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 fatigued and halted. 3 has a small lead. 24 min FLAT: 1,2 tired, 3 fatigued and stopped. HILL: 1,2,3 tired. 25 min FLAT: 1,2 fatigued and halted, 3 tired. HILL: 1 tiring, 2,3 tired. 26 min FLAT: 1,2,3 tired. HILL: 1,2 tiring, 3 tired. 27 min FLAT: 1,2,3, tired. HILL: 1,2 ready and running again, 3 tiring. 28 min FLAT: 1,2 tired, 3 tiring. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 tiring, 1 has a strong lead of maybe 50 meters. 29 min FLAT: 1,3 tiring, 2 tired. HILL: 1,2 tired, 3 ready and running. 30 min FLAT: 1,2 tiring 3 ready 1 finished with a strong lead. HILL: 1,2 fatigued, 3 tired 1 finished with a strong lead. the units on the flat side finished with a lead of the units on the hill side of roughly 190 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Two quick notes: Your inclusion of the 240B team doesn't mean much. You're tossing an orange into a test of apples. Now, it you'd like to see what a 240B team can do, test several (all with the same number of men; some have 3, some have 4). Have one fire off every round of ammo they have. Use the TARGET command until they're empty, even of grenades. Have one team as a standard start loadout. Have a third team load down with every round of 7.62 they can carry. It may take multiple vehicles. Now, test the three teams. (A similar technique should be applied to your rifle squads. Empty one out of all ordnance and ammo. Have one standard. Have a third loud out with every rocket, missile, grenade and 5.56 they can carry.) Second, your test lets them rest when they get tired. Why? Push 'em till they puke, then push 'em some more. The test should show that the loaded units tire more quickly, take longer to recover, and don't cover as much distance. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.zen Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 sounds good, next test should be 30 minutes run to exhaustion before resting. or perhaps just see how far they can go beyond exhausted? with 4 squads, 1 240B full ammo, 1 240B ammo expended, 1 stryker squad empty of ordinance, one loaded to the hilt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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