Clavicula_Nox Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I'm currently playing a scenario with some Stryker infantry, and one of my vehicles took a very close range RPG hit. I was more than a little surprised to see that it survived, but the vehicle's blue force tracker (FBCB2)was destroyed. What practical effect does that have in game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I have no idea how that particular system would affect the vehicle's overall performance for the duration of the mission. I would guess that it would affect C2. But damage to weapons systems can all seriously affect your day. I've had a few 'why won't it fire?' moments only to find, upon inspecting the damage panel, that the vehicles targetting system had been knocked out or it's main armament damaged. Even a Syrian HMG can stuff up some sensitive equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clavicula_Nox Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 I know what you mean. I think the most frustrating (and funny) vehicle damage things I ever had, was when a Stryker's ramp was damaged beyond use while a squad was still trapped inside. I know that C2 is modeled, but I'm not really sure how it is modeled. Does it affect their target acquisition abilities? Other platoon elements can't communicate with the vehicle and they must acquire targets on their own? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Theoretically the positions of friendly and enemy units are shared by units with this system instantaneously. If it was destroyed, you'd be back to voice, radio etc for transmitting the location of spotting contacts, and playing with friendly FOW on you may lose your mates a bit more often. The effects of this are usually pretty minor especially for blue with its already excellent spotting abilities, units will have to spot an enemy from scratch instead of getting a <?> sent to them. It can have a big effect on Red AFVs though, if you spot with a dismounted HQ and wait till the enemy positions get to your BMP/T62 they acquire targets much quicker. Friendly FOW's only practical effect is to make life more difficult for you, but if you role-play a bit you can use it to give more realistic FOW based orders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Its been my opinion that the game's a bit too forgiving with equipment damage. It largely assumes redundancies and back-ups will keep your vehicle in the battle. Primary sight, secondary sight, commanders override, etc. etc. Less than an hour ago I had the optics entirely shot away on my (vehicle X ) in a spectacular fashion. But after the crew took a couple seconds to recover they they simply blew the opponent away with one return shot from across the map. Those are some pretty effective redundancies you got there! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homo ferricus Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Its been my opinion that the game's a bit too forgiving with equipment damage. It largely assumes redundancies and back-ups will keep your vehicle in the battle. Primary sight, secondary sight, commanders override, etc. etc. Less than an hour ago I had the optics entirely shot away on my (vehicle X ) in a spectacular fashion. But after the crew took a couple seconds to recover they they simply blew the opponent away with one return shot from across the map. Those are some pretty effective redundancies you got there! I'd have to agree with you, here. A while back I posted a strange incident I had with an Abrams on Allah's Fist, quoting myself here: I had an Abrams on top of a hill, that when cresting said hill, instantly spotted almost a dozen t-62s and t-72s, 200-300 meters away. This Abrams took (if i remember right) about 30 hits of main cannon rounds to its front, not including the 15 or so ricochets. This thing was so f**ked up that when I had the camera near it, I couldn't even hear the engine running. Crew had a casualty (red marker) and an injury (yellow marker). I can't even remember all the devices that were busted, but the sights, FCS, thermals, optics, targeting etc. were all FUBAR. BUT, somehow, with its tracks and engine shot out, as well as virtually all means it has of spotting and engaging the enemy, with one dead crew member and another wounded--while being the center of attention to the 10 or so enemy tanks and receiving consistent pounding, this Abrams was able to systematically knock out each Syrian tank, almost as if they weren't kicking the Abrams' ass. link to that thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=90171&highlight=ferricus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadiemullet Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 kinda off topic but I was wondering do modern tanks have blow off panels for ammo explosions a la that box thing on the back of a tiger turret? At work the other day I was sat reading wikipedia and reading about jack-in-the-box explosions (which would be mint to see in cmsf2 or normandy for that matter) and K-kills and such and it got me thinking.... As cmsf features era bricks coming off is it possible this may be in future versions? Also it would be cool if cmsf showed actual penetration holes in tanks rather than the generic flame thing thats in the game now (some of the worst graphics ive seen in a long time IMO).... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkompetent Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 kinda off topic but I was wondering do modern tanks have blow off panels for ammo explosions a la that box thing on the back of a tiger turret? Modern western tanks, and some modern eastern tanks (also some modern domestic variants of some Russian tanks however, like Ukraine's T-84) have blow-out magazines at the rear of the turret (this is why the turret extends so far backwards). This includes the Abrams and Challenger 2 (to mention what we get to use in CMSF). However the ammunition in the ready-racks is more exposed since it's within easy reach for the loader, so ammunition explosions inside the compartment can occur, even if the risk is very low due to design. Standard Russian designs however, even the T-90, still use the auto-loader and ammunition-carousel located straight below the turret, ammunition explosions pretty much demolishing the entire tank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Modern western tanks, and some modern eastern tanks (also some modern domestic variants of some Russian tanks however, like Ukraine's T-84) have blow-out magazines at the rear of the turret (this is why the turret extends so far backwards). This includes the Abrams and Challenger 2 (to mention what we get to use in CMSF). However the ammunition in the ready-racks is more exposed since it's within easy reach for the loader, so ammunition explosions inside the compartment can occur, even if the risk is very low due to design. Standard Russian designs however, even the T-90, still use the auto-loader and ammunition-carousel located straight below the turret, ammunition explosions pretty much demolishing the entire tank In many western tanks the ready rack is behind blast doors with blow out panels. The hull ammo storage is probably the most likely to cause a catastrophic explosion. Usually a good chunk of the ammo is in the hull and if that gets hit, you'll have quite an explosion (I don't think any of the challenger 2 ammo is isolated if I remember correctly, Leo also carries a lot in the hull). I think I heard in most cases the Iraqi t-72s with "turret ejection systems" were due to extra ammo/propellant in the crew compartment, with the propellant bags being easily lit. Usually the autoloader magazine is isolated from the crew, but I don't think Russian tanks have any blowout panels for it. Still not good if it's hit, but just less likely to go off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Modern western tanks, and some modern eastern tanks (also some modern domestic variants of some Russian tanks however, like Ukraine's T-84) have blow-out magazines at the rear of the turret (this is why the turret extends so far backwards). This includes the Abrams and Challenger 2 (to mention what we get to use in CMSF). BS, don't wright about things that You have completely no knowledge, otherwise other users with less knowledge will take this untrue info as true. ;-) From western design MBT's only M1 Abrams series got all ammo in isolated by armored sliding doors ammo storage with blow-off panels. Challenger 2 have all ammo stored inside crew compartment, only propelant charges (because ammo is two piece, not one pice) are stored in lightly armored storage bins with bulkheads empty inside and filled with some special liquid or water. Other western tanks like Leo2 or Leclerc got only some part of the ammo stored like in the M1 series, in case of Leo2 it is 15 rounds, in case of Leclerc 22. Rest is in the hull, unprotected. Italian C1 Ariete have all ammo isnide crew compartment. T-84U Oplot and T-84U Oplot-M have ammo in carousel under turret, only T-84-120 Yatagan have some ammo in mechanical loading system magazine storage in turret bustle with design similiar like in M1 series, rest was under turret IRCC. But Yatagan was only prototype... one prototype. However the ammunition in the ready-racks is more exposed since it's within easy reach for the loader, so ammunition explosions inside the compartment can occur, even if the risk is very low due to design. This is not true, ready ammo racks are over the same area as semi ready ammo racks... in case of the M1, from the Iraq lessons learned we know that design worked perfectly, no casualties even in case of ammo cook-off. Standard Russian designs however, even the T-90, still use the auto-loader and ammunition-carousel located straight below the turret, ammunition explosions pretty much demolishing the entire tank Russian design mechanical loading system is good... heh better than ammo storage design in Leopard 2. In case if crew take only ammo in mechanical loading system ammo carousel and left storage racks in hull and turret empty, design is very, very safe, safer than in most western tanks (besides M1). Usually the autoloader magazine is isolated from the crew, but I don't think Russian tanks have any blowout panels for it. Still not good if it's hit, but just less likely to go off. Yes, mechanical loading system ammo carousel is hermetic isolated from the rest of the tank, yes there are no blow off panels (no need for them) and there are two types of mechanical loading system, the safer design from T-72/90 series, and less safe but with much faster loading rate from T-64/80/84 series, both are not common to each other, two completely different systems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmoney Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Damian, good stuff nice read. On vehicle damage in game, I am playing a campaign currently and one of my M1A1 FEP’s has received radio damage with a big red X. I have found (even though it is a FEP model) that it does not spot what friendly units have spotted and in fact he still hasn’t spotted a certain pesky BMP-2. Maybe I’m wrong but I attributed this to the radio being damaged. His IR and targeting are slightly damaged as well but this didn’t seem to affect him as much as the radio being down. Seeing as he had no problem spotting enemy units that were already spotted by a friendly unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 IRCC USMC M1A1HC's and M1A1FEP's doesen't have FBCB2 system mounted yet, from what I read Marines seems to be waiting for new BFT-2 system and new updated version of FBCB2 with better commonality between Marines, Army and even USAF (yeah, they plan to mount system in planes). So in Marines tanks if radio is dead, then there is big problem with C2, Army tanks on the other hand got SINCGARS radio + FBCB2/BFT (M1A1SA's) or FBCB2/EPLRS (M1A2SEP's, still, I saw that on new M1A2SEP's they seems to mount FBCB2/BFT). Army M1A1HC's got only radio. Basic M1A2's got IVIS system, but this is one big bug and failure, I remember that I read that Army even doesen't mount IVIS on all their M1A2's, so these tanks got only radio, I don't know if IVIS got even capabilitie to share informations with newer system, still there is possibility that M1A2's can be equiped with FBCB2 like some older M1A1 variants (many M1A1HA, HA+ and HC's were equiped with FBCB2 ad hoc before 2003 invasion on Iraq, so why not M1A2's?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Roadiemullet: rather than the generic flame thing thats in the game now (some of the worst graphics ive seen in a long time IMO).... Yup, no argument there. However, if you install this fantastic mod, it'll look MUCH better. http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=282 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadiemullet Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Thanks for the response guys... Paper Tiger thanks its amazing how the two fire graphics (this and the in-game orange blob) can be at total opposite ends of the spectrum. Ive seem better flame effects on the sega mega drive. Some of the mods you can download look fantastic - especially compared to some of the in game textures... a lot of people put a lot of effort into mods and then give em out for free which is really generous! Anyways thanks for the response to my question guys! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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