Diplomacy

[vonRocko]

Hello guys,

In previous SC games I very rarely messed with diplomacy,I never saw any real benefit for the cost involved. In this game, I am getting a feeling that diplomacy might have some more benefits. But too spend hundreds of production points only to have the country move a few percentage points, seems like a waste, because I can do more with the units that I would have bought.

I was just wondering how other players deal with diplomacy.It appears to me that to get just one country to join me, requires more money than it is worth.I would rather spend it on units or tech.How do you afford it?

Another question I have is, Do the number of diplomacy chits sent to a country, affect the percentage shift? For instance, if I have 1 chit in Turkey,and have a succesful diplomatic phase(die roll?), will the shift be the same as if I have 4 chits? Or will it be less? Just too clarify,I am talking about the result of diplomacy, not the chance of success.(I know more chits increase the odds of success)

Thanks for any advice.

[Wushuki]

The results are always the same. I can't remember exactly what they were, but it was something like 5-15% normally and a small chance on ~20%.

As for the use of it, I think it can be useful in some situations, but only when a few percent is enough to make a difference. For example, spending 1 chit in diplomacy on Sweden will make it permanently stop sending resources to Germany. This will make itself back quite quickly, especially if Germany does nothing to regain this income.

[Karhu]

I find diplomacy underused in the game generally. Apart from a couple of exceptions like Sweden, the difference it makes when you do get a hit is just too small to be worth it.

That's a pity, because the potential is there, but the impact needs to be greater to make it worthwhile.

[xwormwood]

Sometimes you get results like +38% as well.

Diplomacy would be even more attractive to use if you could collect income from all countries who favour your alliance.

Imagine that you would receive money from all +25% neutrals, and even more at +50% or +75%.

Or, imagine your would instead randomly receive DECISION EVENTS from neutrals favouring you side.

Or, why not imagine that neutrals would spend the diplo money into units (weapons) or tech.

And now the real good thing about all this:

Hubert always listens, and always improves Strategic Command.

Who knows, what he might invents in his next game or expansion. Ahh, the possibilities!

Nice that we always can discuss and dream here.

Even nicer that Hubert often has surprised us with much more than everybody expected.

[vonRocko]

Thanks for the answers. There are some very good ideas here!

I am really liking this game, thanks Hubert & Co.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

One annoying little thing: if you get a hit, you get a dialogue box reporting it. But if your opponent gets a hit on his turn, you see diddly, and have to check the diplo screen to see if anything changed. If you forget to check nasty surprises might be in store.

[heatrr]

To hell with diplomacy....I declare war on everyone.

Additionally, the US is too placid for the lack of a better word.

[PowerGmbH]

Or, imagine your would instead randomly receive DECISION EVENTS from neutrals favouring you side.

this is allready possible. i.e. Spain could , as soon as the Pro Axis % goes >60% trigger some Decision Event to Give Axis Player a Activating Decision.

Problem on this is that the hypotetic outcomes are VERY controversial, in the Beta Testing, there where opinions from "Fanco Never would have Joined" via "If Franco Joined he would have faced a Milit. Revolt" up to "Franco just didn't join because Axis didn't pay enough".

So the Problem is: WHAT to offer to the player? there are almost as much Hypotetic Decisions as there are Players...

[xwormwood]

"What to offer" is a very good question.

I could imagine

- the use of ports or islands (like Brest after Vichy)

- free units with volunteers (like the spanish blue unit)

- diplo hits in countries which are friendly towards the decision event country

- better tech / more units if the country would ever enter war

- better HQ if the country would ever enter war

- in case of spain: sneak an axis ship through Gibraltar

- a convoy line

- a non visible war (spain taking over Marocco or Algier while staying "neutral")

- a slightly better chance for research success (when the neutral helps because of a science treaty), maybe for a limited time

Well, i could go on for hours. Not to forget that all these things above could always backfire as well (like "spend x mpps for a 25% chance, xx mps for a 45% chance and xxx for 90% chance. If you fail, there is a xx% chance that this bad thing will happen").

Best would always be that a country, courted from both alliances with diplo chits, would be much better prepared for war than a neutral that was attacked without having ever received any help from anyone.

Well, see, now i'm dreaming again.

[Colin I]

I think some players underestimate diplomacy.

Axis have less scope but there are certain critical allies (Spain, sometimes Sweden or Turkey) that can be recruited. This can because of strategic location (to threaten Gibraltar) but also bulking out limited force pools with extra manpower.

The Allies now have a lot of chits. Its a good way of threatening Axis interests when they do not want to be distracted. For example, if Allies invest in Spain then Axis is pretty much obliged to invade or invest chits. If this is happening during Barbarossa it can be a problem - a MPP/unit drain.

Allies can convert a neutral as an easy entry into Europe - somewhere to build up. If Spain and Portugal are Neutral then getting Portugal as Allied gives a build up location. Unlike invading France it will take time for Axis ground units to engage. An Allied Sweden is very threatening if Allies start to locate bombers there to fly over the Baltic. There comes a point where US has so many MPP then throwing some diplomatic pressure into the misery for the Axis makes sense.

Agree with others that want to see a more subtle system with more benefits for a country being biased to Axis or Allies but not a full participant. Stuff like the Sweden convoy is a nice reason to use diplomacy.

I'd also like decision events to be triggered by diplomacy.

I'd really like there to be a chance of peace in China (driven by diplomacy) to add variety in strategy to the Far East.

[PowerGmbH]

I'd really like there to be a chance of peace in China (driven by diplomacy) to add variety in strategy to the Far East.

Extremely hypotetical but interisting consquences could go from there, like War between Chan-Kai-Chek and Mao-Tse-Tung... tho whoom would tend Mao, as not necessarily to URSS...

Quite an idea for a complete Hypotetic History Version. and this is only one of thousand DE ideas.-.. a focus on the historic background is a must in order not to leave ground with D-events.

[Mantiss]

In my current game (AoE - playing the Allies), I saw something which must be incredibly rare... I was investing heavily in diplomatic chits for Turkey. I had built up Egypt and wiped the Italians as soon as they entered, and was hoping an Allied Turkey at the right time would give me another potential route into Europe. I had maxed out the amount of chits I had with them.

And then what happens? POOF! Spain, Sweden AND Turkey all go Axis on the same turn! My jaw hit the floor, some particularly foul words were uttered, and we began preparing for the Germans to invade us through Turkey, instead of the other way around.

What are the odds!!

[Syagrius]

In my last games as the Axis I spent quite alot on diplomatics actions, I noticed some patterns: I usually have some success with Turkey, but for Nationalist Spain, forget it, the only way to get them in the war is with the event not creating Vichy France. It make sense because Franco asked for so much to Hitler that many says it was a way to stay out of the war. However, by investing alot on Spain we should be able to get her in the war, at least before the end of a game. For Japan its not worth making Thailand Axis because it is so easy to conquer.

My two cents

[Bill101]

Spain, Sweden AND Turkey all go Axis on the same turn! ... What are the odds!!

Has anything else happened in the scenario that may have triggered it, for instance have the Axis carried out a Sea Lion?

[Chargin Smith]

I will only use the diplomacy option if I mode the campaign to where the option is worth using!