New Russian weaponsystem?

[Erik Springelkamp]

Has Russia developed any major new weaponsystems since the collapse of the Soviet Union, or is it mostly gradual upgrades from existing systems?

And what upgrades of existing systems would you regard a major improvement?

Maybe one should include the Ukraine in this picture, or even Belarus?

I would expect major improvements in armour, anti-armour munitions, targeting devices, anti-aircraft systems, cruise missile technology, but I don't have any references for this assumption, but I expect there are some experts in this forum who are glad to give their opinion.

[Alex]

Google in help

[Erik Springelkamp]

> Google in help

Yes, I can find large number of pages, but I find it hard to separate solid content from propaganda.

[Piecekeeper]

They are working on a new tank I think. To replace T-90 and T-80.

[Alex]

I dot think that here is such expert who can say real situation, but not western or eastern propaganda. We in Russia don't know real situation, what to tell about local members.

Yes in Russia works at new tank, but now this work was stopped at time, for a waiting a good times come.

Need more clear, that interest to you: a projects, or weapon at service?

[Erik Springelkamp]

I have seen a lot of references to portable anti tank systems on this forum over the years. So here I am curious if those are new systems or just some upgrades of existing systems.

I am also interested in the air-defence systems that are potentially in the market for Iran, as I read sometimes references to those in the news.

I can hardly imagine that these kind of systems could not be much improved with technology that has become cheap and mainstream in the last 20 years.

Drone systems like predator, there must be a market for those things for clients that the US are not prepared to supply.

[Alex]

It's hard to separate absolutely new and deep modified, for example BMP-3 and "Bahcha-U" weapons module looks same but difference is big. Also "new" for Russian weapons not always correct, some system was developed in 90s, but baying RusArmy only now.

In AT is:

ATMG we have AT-14 "Kornet" it's not modification of some old system.

"Chrysanthemum" armored mobile ATMG on BMP-3 base it's 'new'.

"Sprut-SD" Mobile Gun System

This systems could call new.

In air-defense it's of course "Pancir-S1", "TOR-M2", S-400, MANPADS "igla-1"

This is of course not all.

And of course Russia do many upgraded system, that lifted up on new level.

[hcrof]

I think the T-50 PAK-FA is pretty important, even if it is not in production yet. A Russian F-22 apparently.

The BRAHMOS missile too, but again, not in production yet.

The legendary T-95 (legendary because noone has ever seen it )

The Russians are also working on a new battlefield management system with the associated drones etc.

Russia has also introduced a number of new small arms such as the Kord HMG and a MMG that replaces the PKM (I forget the name). To go with that are new sights and better uniforms and body armour.

I think we will see a good number of cutting edge new systems coming out of Russia in the next decade even if rumour has a habit of overshadowing facts in this area.

[Alex]

The legendary T-95 (legendary because noone has ever seen it )

Unfortunately and will newer see - as I already sad it closed.

That about Iran if they will receive iven S-300 it will be very hard to attack them from air.

If some one want to see that is going on in Russian army and weapon industry look this http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?99988-Russian-Photos-%28updated-on-regular-basis%29 (here very many good photos and information)

[dpabrams]

Yes, his name is Putin and he knows Judo!

[hcrof]

Alex - are you sure they have cancelled the T-95? The deputy defence minister called the T-90 "an upgraded T-34" (i.e. old and not as good as western tanks). Surely that is a sign that he wants a new tank?

[MikeyD]

The Sovet Union dissolved 25 years ago (or so) and still the US fields the Abrams, Bradley, Humvee and Patriot. We use a carbine version of the old M16, we're still sailing around in the much same ships and still flying around in the much same aircraft. We even still field the eighty nine year old Browning .50 cal machine gun! And we've got ten times the war budget as Russia. So its no great surprise there hasn't been a dramatic turnover in Russian military equipment in the same timeframe.

[Blackcat]

Haven't the Russians developed some rather nasty anti-ship missile sytems? I know the SSN-22 Sunburn was developed in the Soviet era, but I am sure I recall reading that they have moved on to even "better" things since.

[souldierz]

From what I heard the Russian Kremlin has decided to really upgrade their army and gear.

[Alex]

2 hcrof

Yes T-95 has been closed in 2009, it's does not mean that will no new tank, but russian defense industry have many problems this some technology's and need to solve it first. I think we can see a new tank at 2013-17 year. But now Ministry of Defense will buy new T-90M, that will be demonstrate at this summer in NigniyTagil.

On this photo represented T-90 with T-90M turret.

[Damian90]

As for cancelled Object-195 (T-95), Koaliztia-SV and BMPT, Russians wan't to take other road to succes, mainly Israeli one, by developing chassis that will serve as hull for new MBT, SPH, BMP etc. This will be new T-95 if everything will go well... but until R&D program end US will get family of new vehicles developed under GCV program... of course idea is different, not one shared hull but several different hulls for different vehicles that shares most common parts. First of the vehicles will be new HIFV (yes, M2 Bradley replacement will be heavy vehicle, officers are even ready to accept 60 tons with full uparmoring). Israel until that time will be have fleet of AFV's based on Merkava Mk.4 and Namer hull, hull of tank and HAPC is not same but share most parts as common, so rest of planed vehicles like Namer HIFV and other will be based progrably on Namer type hull. Different aproches but same idea I think.

We need only wait until Germans start work on other vehicles based on SPZ Puma hull.

And as for now, with T-90M there are two aproches to modernisation, first is basic T-90M as we seen on pic, second is some new turret, maybe simplified Burlak turret.

[JonS]

... [the US has] ten times the war budget as Russia. ...

It's more like 17-times the military budget.

[Alex]

second is some new turret, maybe simplified Burlak turret.

It's also closed, like a BMD-4, Sprut-SD, BMP "Kurganec".

[Alek]

It is difficult to distinguish the new weapon system, or - to say about something, that is either improving old weapons systems. No case that people in one year running with spears, and the next took up guns or planes.

Tank Abrams M1 tank and the Abrams M1 A2TUSK - is a different weapon systems or the continuation of a weapons system

When it improved weapons systems, then we can talk about evolution. The revolution may be in the Great War, World War II, for example.

The last 20 years is rather to say, the improvement of the digital component of weapons, especially sophisticated equipment - tanks, IFV, aircraft, munitions.

For Russia, there are the following improvements when you can say about the new weapons system, not about cosmetic repairs. Here, about weapons systems - which are rapidly developing or have already made.

Nukes:

R-30 BULAVA (NATO SS-NX-30) - submarine-launched international ballistic missileeto developed very strongly for the replacement and development of R-36RMU2 SINEVA (NATO SS-N-23 Skiff).

RS-24 YARS continued silo system for RT-2UTTH Topol M (NATO SS-27 Sickle , 3-6 Warheades, designed to replace RS-36 VOEVODA (NATO SS-18 Satan) $)

Navy:

Project 885YASEN - nuclear multipurpose attack submarine class (NATO Graney class submarine). It was created and built to replace and supplement for Project 949A (Oscar class) and Project 971 (Akula class)

Project 955 BOREI - ballistic missile submarine (NATO Borei class). It was created to replace the ballistic missile submarines of 667 KALMAR and 667BDRM DELPHIN (NATO Delta Class.). Big minus this project - there is no ready missiles: R-30 BULAVA is still being developed. Also, there are three pieces for Project 941AKULA (NATO Typhoon class) - is awaiting action in the project for modernization 941U where the missiles would be for R-30.

Project 677 LADA - non nuclear submarine (NATO Lada class). It is created for replacement and additions to project 636 (NAtO Kilo class).

Aircraft:

PAK FA-fifth generation fighter aircraft. This is a continuation of the seed line SU. This hazrabatyvaetsya to replace SU-27 (NATO Flanker) and Mig-29 (NATO Fulcrum).

SU-35 - 4 + +, haha, generation fighter aircraft (NATOFlanker-E) This is a continuation of the seed line SU.Eto created and produced for the replacement and additions SU-27 (NATO Flanker) and Mig-29 (NATO Fulcrum).

SU-34 - two-seat fighter-bomber (NATO Fullback). It is created and produced for replacement and additions SU-24 (NATO Fencer).

Tanks:

T-90 MBT is expanding for the replacement and improvements to the T-90M, only three types of tanks remains dl I use. This will be MBT: T-90, T-80 (this is better for all models to achieve modification of T-80UD), T-72 (this improvement is done for all models to achieve modification of T-72BA). In Belarus, left T-72 only. Improvement is achieved up to T-72BM1 (this is more possible than for the T-72 BA). MBT T-55, T-62, T-64 removed from the stock of weapons. Belarus removes from the stock arms as well and T-80.

IVF:

Replacement of BMP-3 for BMP-1 BMP-2. Only Russia, Belarus removes from the stock arms as well BMP-1, leaving only the BMP-2

Being developed BTR-82 and. BTR-90 for the replacement of all BTR.

New line of family cars with armor: VAZ TIGER, which was not previously as a fact - this is similar to the line HMMWV. This is only developed as a model for adoption.

Artillery:

Digital tools for improving self-propelled 152mm howitzer 2S19M1 MSTA-S and 2S3M3 AKACIA. In Belarus, making improvements for 2S5 Giatsint and MLRS BM-30 SMERTCH and BM-27 URAGAN, in Belarus, very little was to 2S19.

Anti-Aircraft:

S-400 (NATO SA-21 Growler) to continue and add the line S-300P (SA-10, SA-20).

Pantsir-S1 (NATO SA-22) and TOR-M2 (NATO SA-15b) for replacement of OSA (NATO SA-8)

Most probably, a big development: an analogue for the American system FBC2B - this ESU TZ SOZVEZDIE, as in Belarus make digital control system - «INTEGRACIA», but such a system is higher than the tactical part, but rather the level of brigade-division-army.

[Alex]

Also I can add here:

Mi-28N attack-helicopter

Ka-52 recon-attack-helicopter

"Ansant-U" lite traning-fighting helecopter

MiG-35 4++ fighter aircraft

YaK-130 traning-fighting aircraft

very many new small arms and troops equipment

Tactical mobile ground missal luncher "Iskander" - to replace "Tochka-U"

and many etc.

[Damian90]

It's also closed, like a BMD-4, Sprut-SD, BMP "Kurganec".

So no new turret with ammo magazine isolated from and with blow off panels then?

It is difficult to distinguish the new weapon system, or - to say about something, that is either improving old weapons systems. No case that people in one year running with spears, and the next took up guns or planes.

Tank Abrams M1 tank and the Abrams M1 A2TUSK - is a different weapon systems or the continuation of a weapons system

Well, in case of M1 and M1A2 differences, in some points these two are two different vehicles. In my point of view we have here evolution with small revolution (evolution in hull upgrades, and revolution with different turrets. Yes I know, similiar looking but turrets are in fact very different), but same case we can see with T-90 and T-90A differences.

The last 20 years is rather to say, the improvement of the digital component of weapons, especially sophisticated equipment - tanks, IFV, aircraft, munitions.

And I think upgrading is good choice, we have new experiences with new tech, and in the same time we really have no urgent need with some new, revolutionary designs.

T-90 MBT is expanding for the replacement and improvements to the T-90M, only three types of tanks remains dl I use. This will be MBT: T-90, T-80 (this is better for all models to achieve modification of T-80UD), T-72 (this improvement is done for all models to achieve modification of T-72BA). In Belarus, left T-72 only. Improvement is achieved up to T-72BM1 (this is more possible than for the T-72 BA). MBT T-55, T-62, T-64 removed from the stock of weapons. Belarus removes from the stock arms as well and T-80.

Well, I see this in that way. Best units in Russian Federation Land Forces, should be equiped with T-90A and in future with T-90M tanks + some units equiped with T-80U and T-80UD tanks, after some RESET program and small modernisation + eventually supplemented by basic T-90's and T-72BA's. Rest line units should be equiped with T-72B/BW and T-80B/BW tanks. MVD units should be equipped with older tanks with best condition from T-55AM/M, T-62M, T-64B/BW and T-72A/AW series from stocks, rest should be scrapped. Belarus should stick with T-72B/BW, Ukraine with T-64B/BW, T-64BM and in small numbers with T-80UD's and T-84U's for best units.

IVF:

Replacement of BMP-3 for BMP-1 BMP-2. Only Russia, Belarus removes from the stock arms as well BMP-1, leaving only the BMP-2

Being developed BTR-82 and. BTR-90 for the replacement of all BTR.

Well, I think that in Russia, BMP-2 should stay with BMP-3, and BMP-1P should be send to MVD units. BTR-82 is in fact BTR-80 with upgrades, so all BTR-80's should be upgraded if this is possible. BTR-90 is not in service yet IRCC.

Most probably, a big development: an analogue for the American system FBC2B - this ESU TZ SOZVEZDIE, as in Belarus make digital control system - «INTEGRACIA», but such a system is higher than the tactical part, but rather the level of brigade-division-army.

So Russian system is not counterpart for FBCB2, because FBCB2 is Brigade and below systems and higher structure in US armed forces have it's own Battle Management System... so still in this term Russians are step behind Americans.

[Alex]

So no new turret with ammo magazine isolated from and with blow off panels then?

Why not? If you'll look steadfastly at my T-90M photo you'll see that it has a ammo repository at back (for long and powerful rounds)

BTR-90 is not in service yet IRCC

And it never will I think. GAZ already working at BTR-90M, that will have engine at the front.

[Alek]

1.I seemed that there is talk about new weapons systems, or more or less advanced systems modernization or upgrading. For example, has a set of tanks, Russia or Ukraine, Soviet Made, I know.

2.MVD a T-62 tanks for weapons, the general trend to replace tanks and BMP - new and BTR armored vehicles. BTR-90 is not in service. Of course, I wrote «Being developed» to explain, BTR-82-good achievement for the BTR-80, for example, a powerful engine and control system and survival.

3. BMP-3 is claimed as a substitute for BMP-1 / 2 in the infantry troops. The rate change does the fact of the system to contain BMP-1, and then, perhaps, BMP-2.

4. I know as an abbreviation FBCB2 haha, ESU TZ - is 'EDINAYA SISTEMA UPRAVLENIA: TAKTICHESKAYA ZADAZA' - for 'Unified Control System: Tactical Task'

[Damian90]

Why not? If you'll look steadfastly at my T-90M photo you'll see that it has a ammo repository at back (for long and powerful rounds)

No, turret bustle in T-90M is too small for holding ammo, there are different things, like new BMS and radio systems and also CITV assembly, but mechanical loader in hull was modified to be compatibile with longer penetrators of APFSDS ammo, still solution is not perfect and there are still some limits.

And it never will I think. GAZ already working at BTR-90M, that will have engine at the front.

Oh, so I will agree that BTR-90M will be better solution.

As for rest we will see, even US with much greater R&D funding, greater DoD and Pentagon budget etc. have problems with fielding new weapon systems and in some way even upgrading currently used systems (new engines for M1 tanks, even several years ago tanks were tested with several different engines, even several different new tech gas turbines greater fuel efficency and reliability, as we know, nothing new was selected because of lack of time for integrating engine with gearbox and probably lack of funds).

[Alex]

No, turret bustle in T-90M is too small for holding ammo, there are different things, like new BMS and radio systems and also CITV assembly, but mechanical loader in hull was modified to be compatibile with longer penetrators of APFSDS ammo, still solution is not perfect and there are still some limits.

Yes it's a ammo repository with automatic loader, but only for hi-power long shells (that can't be used in main "AZ"), it's not replace "AZ" (base automatic loader system). I say so because I saw not only photo but also a comments from developers.

I don't know, may be it will be calling not BTR-90M, but I saw this name, and it will be a base for different vehicles family.