New from the IDF

[Damian90]

I don't understand why You react in such way, Your some kind of idealist?

So bad news my friend, ideals are illusion, and this is normal that Israel as stronger country will try to keep they domination over other weaker countries or ethnic groups, not to mention that in reality other muslim countries don't like Palestinians, as example look on relations history between palestinians and Jordan.

I bet if Netherlands have capabilieties to dominate over Denmark, Belgium etc. they will do that.

Normal thing, same normal thing are wars, people fights between them, heh in nature all species fights between theirselfs.

So making from this some tragedy, that this is unfair or something is just so... naive.

EOT.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I don't understand why You react in such way, Your some kind of idealist?

So bad news my friend, ideals are illusion, and this is normal that Israel as stronger country will try to keep they domination over other weaker countries or ethnic groups, not to mention that in reality other muslim countries don't like Palestinians, as example look on relations history between palestinians and Jordan.

I bet if Netherlands have capabilieties to dominate over Denmark, Belgium etc. they will do that.

Normal thing, same normal thing are wars, people fights between them, heh in nature all species fights between theirselfs.

So making from this some tragedy, that this is unfair or something is just so... naive.

EOT.

Most retarded statement in quite some time.

Mankind and their nations have moved on from the law of the jungle a while back. Might=/=Right.

PS

We could absolutely take down Belgium.

[Damian90]

Most retarded statement in quite some time.

Yeah right, maybe try use arguments.

Mankind and their nations have moved on from the law of the jungle a while back. Might=/=Right.

Nope, stronger always will have influance on weaker, no matter if on moral side they don't have right. But of course You can still be illusioned that mankinds actions are not based mainly on primitive instincts.

Do You ever questioned Yourself what are main goals for every man? Food, defecation, sex and if needed destroy Your enemy, primitive, yes, but this is what define us and every other species on this planet.

But what is funny people try to cut off this primitive goals of their life by morality, culture etc. But still we are animals, just smarter.

And in fact all of this is just hypocrisy. Let make and example, on the lefties as they are great example of hypocrisy, they are against wars, killing other people etc. but then again they are ok with abortion even if it is killing people. Cultural and moral hypocrisy, and I hope You understand what I mean.

You of course call that retard but as I belevie only because language barriers made my post misunderstanding, my English is not that great as I wish.

PS

We could absolutely take down Belgium.

And You will do that when profits will be higher than losses in economics or politics. Simple, and that doesen't mean conventional war only, it could be economy war, cultural war, everything.

For Israel there is better situation if they are dominant group in the region, fo US it is better to help Israel as on cultural platform both countries are closer than US and muslim states, so both will work to do everything to take their goals. Sure someone say, but this isn't fair... and what is in life? Not to mention why You care about people that don't care about You?

[rich12545]

Rich12545,

Ahem; it is factual that the Palestinians don't have their own country, the Israelis do. It is factual that more Palestinians die then Israelis. It is factual that Israel is building more new villages on OCCUPIED Palestinian territory. It is also factual that the USA, your country, supports Israel with 3 Billion dollars for defense every year.

I side with the only side that is sort of objective, the UN. According to international law Israel is in fact illegally occupying East Jeruzalem and ALL settlements in the Gaza strip and west-bank are illegal according to international law.

This is no opinion, nor propaganda, these are facts.

I think the Israeli media budget is slightly higher then it's Palestinian counterpart. Therefore it's Propaganda is much more effective then the Palestinians propaganda. Hence their ease in brainwashing you. Let me guess, you also believe that Fox's slogan 'Fair and balanced' is appropriate for their content? If so there is no point in me discussing with you.

I also don't discuss with people who believe the earth is flat or only 2010 years old, there is no point in that. They deny undeniable facts and therefore are not viable for any serious discussion about any serious topic.

For the record; Hamas is not really the party of my choice. However, the support for Hamas is created by Israel's policies the past 50 years. It is the democratic government of the Palestinians, that should be enough of a lesson for the state Israel.

---

If you just kept your post to the IFV, I wouldn't have reacted in this way.

Good luck to you.

Leathaface,

Ahem. Granted it is factual the palestinians don't have their own country. However it is also factual that they would have by now except for their constant terrorism.

It is factual that palestinians wouldn't be dying if they stopped the terrorism. They die only in retaliation. If they don't want to be killed, they should stop the killing. Simple.

It is NOT factual that Israel is building more new villages on OCCUPIED Palestinian territory. The territory NEVER belonged to the palestinians. Israel took the territory from Egypt and Jordan in 1967. The territory including ALL of Jerusalem belongs to Israel as a result of that war. The palestinians have NO claim to it at all and never did.

The UN is NOT even sort of objective. It is a pro-palestinian organization made up of primarily pro-palestinian countries. To say the UN is sort of objective is a falsehood.

Your opinion is NOT fact, it is propaganda. Actually palestinian propaganda is VERY effective. They have liberal organizations like the BBC, Reuters and the AP spreading it for them at no cost.

The support for Hamas has nothing to do with Israeli policy and everything to do with the palestinian goal, which is the destruction of Israel. If palestinians wanted a country to live in peace, they could have had it years ago. Their living conditions and hardships are a result of their leadership and policies of the last 40 years. When you say 50 years, this proves you have no clue.

If you had kept your post away from events about which you know nothing other than propaganda, I wouldn't have reacted in this way.

[Vark]

Why don't we have long impassioned posts about how awful the Russians behaved/still behave in Chechnya, when we discuss their nice shiny new toys?

Elmar, I'd have thought you would have been less naieve, man always has the ability, for some the propensity, to be savage. Civilisation is not an illusion but like out atmosphere very thin and very fragile. Paradoxically, the more you believe in universal 'civilisation' and international law being effective the greater the deathtoll will eventually be when you have to confront this error.

In a country there can be vast differences in how civilised people are so I am not advocating racial superiority, but any person who believes in any transformation of mankind is sure to be very disappointed.

Final point, there has never been a Palestinian state so they have never had it taken away, they did try to kick out the Israelis but got hammered, a fact they have never got over; read Wolfgang Schivelbusch's "Culture of Defeat" to see the impact this mindset has had on the Arab world and the Nakba.

[costard]

Yeah right, maybe try use arguments.

Hi Damian.

The counter-argument runs:

It is manifestly demonstrable that groups (whether of individuals or societies) do better than individuals in garnering and maintaining wealth and/or power. The rules of behaviour required to get a group to operate (i.e. recognition of hierarchies in ability, leadership, resource base, etc.) preclude the development of the unilateral power structures you are describing.

The line you are selling is a convenient but intellectually bankrupt argument resurrected most recently by the US Right to justify their actions and is continuing to be sold in the interests of maintaining a strong military/industrial complex (and the profits flowing to the owners of the same.)

Nope, stronger always will have influance on weaker, no matter if on moral side they don't have right. But of course You can still be illusioned that mankinds actions are not based mainly on primitive instincts.

Always influence, not always control. Based mainly on primitive instincts, but not always: the existence of the complex power and wealth structures that mark the modern human society tend to refute the argument.

You of course call that retard but as I belevie only because language barriers made my post misunderstanding, my English is not that great as I wish.

Sorry if the reply is overly verbose - it is my disease.

Cheers.

[Vark]

Surely that is true of the development of a state/society but can you then transpose those observations to support multi-lateralism? If it benefits a nations self-interest to act unilaterally it will, if it perceives the opposite it will follow the other path.

Why the, seemingly inevitable, dig at the US right, explain why counter-theory theory to yours is intellectually bankrupt and what has it got to do with the US military/industrial complex? I'd have thought a more apposite example of national self-interest would be the Russian behaviour to neighbouring states and the Chinese scramble for African resources. Finally, what is wrong with selling countries weapons, sometimes purchased because those countries do not trust the multi-lateral shield they are told will protect them.

As for the question of Israel, one of the best quotes was from, I believe, a reservist on the West Bank, during the Intifada he said. " I will respect them (the Palestinians) when I fear their software engineers and not their suicide bombers".

[Battlefront.com]

An IDF thread taking the wrong turn. How... unexpected.

Yeah, I'm surprised too. Shocked even. In fact, I'm SOOOOOO shocked that I'm locking this one up.

This is not a forum for politics, fellas. Don't continue this in another thread.

Steve