New from the IDF

[jkobmadrid]

the NAMER (TIGER).

new ifv based on the merkava mk1 body. able to carry 11 soldiers.

has a M2 0.5 cal mag, or a 40 mm grande launcher.

like the merkava, it has 4 camera's, day and night sight, AC, and a toilet.

the need for a heave AFV is vased on the merkava ability to

take sometimes 5-6 kornets before giving up, as learned from last 2006 operation in lebanon against hizbulla, or as called here: hizballons.

the assualt rifle:

and accuracy wasn't an issue....

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6493/3673.th.jpg' alt='3673.th.jpg'>

the tavor is currently used by GIVATY (purple beret) infantry regiment.

[Damian90]

new ifv based on the merkava mk1 body.

Wrong, Namer is HAPC or Heavy Armored Personell Carrier, and production vehicles have hull based on Merkava Mk.4 hull but vehicles are new produced and doesen't share the same hull with tank, they are just similiar, the same family of vehicles. What is on Your pic is prototype based on redesigned Merkava Mk.1.

Here is the mass production Namer:

First unit that is equiped right now with Namer is Golani brigade IRCC, or maybe Givati, I don't remember.

Designers now work on HIFV or Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle variant of Namer equiped with unmanned RCWS-30 turret armed with ATK Mk.44 30mm auto cannon, coaxial 7,62x51mm FN MAG-58 + Spike ATGM's.

like the merkava, it has 4 camera's,

??? Merkava Mk.4 the most advanced variant got only one, rear camera for driver, Namer probably same + additional thick vision blocks for dismounts on both sides of vehicle.

the need for a heave AFV is vased on the merkava ability to

take sometimes 5-6 kornets before giving up

This isn't true, because it depends where You hit, not how many ATGM's hit (and certainly don't write about Kornet like about some Wunderwaffe, same for Merkava, other modern tanks probably can get same performance as in 2006 Lebanon, especially in up-armored variants, in fact only Merkava Mk.2D, Mk.3D and Mk.4A/B got siginificant advantage in side turret protection than other modern MBT's but nothing more), most Merkava tanks where hit in side hull or side turret (this for older variants, Merkava Mk.2D, Mk.3D and Mk.4A/B have very thick side armor) or rear armor, Namer is just answer for troops need for good protected, modern HAPC better than Achzarit.

after many years of using the short version of the m16,

the new Tavor is replacing the veteran m16. the tavor was found to be more accurate, easy to use, and more rigid.

I think it is a bit propagandish, both M16/M4 series and new TAR-21 are great weapons, but this doesen't mean that TAR-21 is some uber weapon, just new construction with some benefiths from bullpup design.

GIVATY

Givati goddamnit... And it is not infantry regiment but brigade.

BTW, things You shown here are nothing new, Namer is in operational year from second half 2009, TAR-21 is in units from first half of 2009 or even earlier was introduced to first units. In fact more important news from me was first apperence of Merkava Mk.4B in Operation Cast Lead and few months ago first new produced Merkava Mk.4B's with ASPRO-A/Trophy APS.

[MikeyD]

I read the U.S, has footed the entire bill for the thing. Yeh, that's right. American taxpayer dollars at work.

[Bigduke6]

Now Michael, just remember, for sure there are substantial US

corporations that added profit because of that deal. They certainly had their interests well-represented by the government; it's just the individual taxpayers that got screwed.

[jkobmadrid]

damian, don't be so hard on yourself.

by saying new, i mean operational. NAMER is still not in full service yet.

for the cameras, i don't mean just TV, but thermal an IR and etc

for the tavor rifle, that's was the reason to develop the

tavor in the first place. the IDF tested it, and decided that it's better.

and spend his money to by it.

and most important, please don't tell me how to spell GIVATY,

as i am the one who speaks hebrew here.

it's like me telling you how to spell warsaw.

about the merkava 4 in lebanon 2006, friends who were tank co, told

me that they took 5-6 kernets. and they are alive to tell it.

anyway, everything i wrote is official publication.

cheers.

[Damian90]

by saying new, i mean operational. NAMER is still not in full service yet.

Well it is, they were used in Cast Lead and there are more and more of them in units.

for the cameras, i don't mean just TV, but thermal an IR and etc

One TV for driver in the rear of hull + sight for gunner with day and thermal channels, nothing more as we can see on vehicle, commander have only vision blocks.

for the tavor rifle, that's was the reason to develop the

tavor in the first place. the IDF tested it, and decided that it's better.

and spend his money to by it.

Of course, there were reasons, TAR-21 is newer, more perspective, have some advantages for mechanized troops thanks to bullpup design + it is support for Israeli military industry, simple, but that doesen't mean that M16/M4 series are piece of crap and TAR-21 is fully superior to it.

and most important, please don't tell me how to spell GIVATY,

as i am the one who speaks hebrew here.

it's like me telling you how to spell warsaw.

Hmmm, then mea culpa, maybe it is problem in how it is spelled in english and in hebrew, in all publications I've seen Givati.

about the merkava 4 in lebanon 2006, friends who were tank co, told

me that they took 5-6 kernets. and they are alive to tell it.

Ok, but this is probably thanks to that Kornet ATGM's hit frontal arc of hull and front and side of turret armor, side hull surely should be perforated by such big tandem warhead, of course, Merkava series got thicker side hull armor than in other tanks, and side armor in upper part, the barbete is modular thick multilayer laminate armor.

Guys about production of Namer in US, first, nothing is still certain, besides this, US military industry can have some profits, especially some construction ideas can be adopted for vehicles designed under GCV program.

[Yair Iny]

I read the U.S, has footed the entire bill for the thing. Yeh, that's right. American taxpayer dollars at work.

Mike, I challenge you to let one thread with the word IDF in its title go by without a negative comment

As to who foots the bill, it's more complicated than that. The US gives Israel around $3B a year in military aid. The majority of it has to be spent on US-produced goods, hence we were issued uniforms that were made in Texas rather than in Israel, while the Israeli factory that used to make uniforms was shut down. So I doubt that at an accounting level, these APCs were funded by US money. However, that money of course frees up other money from Israel's own contribution to its military budget, so you're not all wrong there. At the end of the day, the US gives military aid for its own strategic and political purposes and if you disagree with those purposes you should vote for someone who disagrees too

Cheers

[rich12545]

I read the U.S, has footed the entire bill for the thing. Yeh, that's right. American taxpayer dollars at work.

Money very well spent.

[Damian90]

There is also one more thing to say why Namer's should be produced in US, normally factory in Israel can produce 50 to 60 per (few?) months/Year? Now production line is shared with Namer HAPC's so production of Merkava Mk.4B's is slower, if HAPC's can be produced in US, then production line will be again free for MBT's only.

[Alan8325]

One of the latest Russian IFVs, the BTR-T, is also based on a tank chassis, the T-55. It was developed in response to vulnerabilities of BTRs and BMPs to RPG fire during the Chechen war. It also gives them something to do with all the old T-55s.

[Alex]

Since 2001 RA had in service BMO-T (boevaya mashina ognemetchikov - tajolaya/ fighting vehicle flame-thrower troops - Hevy) - it's based on T-72.

[Damian90]

Well, there are more interesting HAPC's and HIFV's from the east.

BMPV-64:

There are also it's variants designated BTRV-64, UMBP-64 and wheeled similiar vehicle BMPT-K-64:

And of course BMPT, it can't transport infantry but it is very well armored, I would fear that thing sitting even in well armored MBT.

[Alex]

Look inside this Ukrainian vehicles

It's not looks good, and wood panels not perfect idea for fighting vehicle I think (2nd foto at right ) .

[Damian90]

Yeah, thats true, it is primitive as hell... but maybe this was nececary? It is probably cheap in comparision to other vehicles in the same class.

But the driver controls are just... damn, remake of the T-34/76 and T-34/85 tragedy.

But again, it is probably cheap, so they think why not, especially that this vehicle is prototype, no full production vehicles to this day IRCC.

[Alex]

Interesting, that as I know only IDF and RusArmy have heavy APS in service, or some body else to?

Of course Ukrainian vehicles only prototype, but who will wont to bay this vehicles or pay to finished this idea, after this photos?

[Damian90]

Hmmm, I think that new Puma can be designaqted as Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicle, and ofcorse GCV (Ground Combat Vehicle) program IFV, some high US oficers say that even if vehicle with full uparmoring will weight 60 tons it will be good for them so it will be interesting how new US IFV will be look like.

And as for Ukrainian vehicle, I think they eventually push it to production, but it will be probably low rate, anyway there are no signs that they were not produce it, they produce T-84U Oplot-M that is much more expensive.

[Alex]

Projects it's projects, interesting did some own else have heavy APS in service?

Ukrainians did some thing only if they have money for it, if this vehicles will don't have customers they never finished it.

[Damian90]

Projects? Not all are projects, Puma is now in production status, GCV developing starts this year, and as more classical, heavy design it will enter production in relative short time.

As for Ukrainians, well we will see.

BTW, not APS because it stands for Active Protection System, You mean APC or Armored Personel Carrier.

[Alex]

I'm not strong in US military terminology.

"PUMA" heavy vehicle, but is it so heavy like tank based vehicle? Can it protect from any 120mm tank rounds?

I'm don't have info about "Puma"

[Lethaface]

Money very well spent.

Money spent on an ethical corrupt cause, the subjugation of civilians. Go find out who it is that has provided your world vision, and punch him in the eye please. If THAT is very well spent in your eyes, you must have been going to the wrong optician your whole life.

Sorry, but dumb comments like this really itch me.

It looks like a nice IFV, capable of it's duties, and I like it for that. If it is a good thing that US taxpayers arm the warmongering state of Israel with advanced military hardware, that remains to be the question.

[Lethaface]

Alex, look here for more info about the German Puma http://tinyurl.com/yjhf6sl

[rich12545]

Money spent on an ethical corrupt cause, the subjugation of civilians. Go find out who it is that has provided your world vision, and punch him in the eye please. If THAT is very well spent in your eyes, you must have been going to the wrong optician your whole life.

Sorry, but dumb comments like this really itch me.

Too bad if these comments itch you. They wouldn't if you had a clue what was really going on instead of listening to leftist/palestinian propaganda.

[Damian90]

Well, everything is more simple.

Palestinians don't suffer because Israel want that, they suffer because Hamas leaders (Hezbollah also) understands that when they attack, IDF will cut supplies for Gaza, IDF cut that because Hamas use these supplies, and indeed they use these supplies, then civilians suffer, same goes with military actions, when Israel territory is attacked then we go actions and the circle close.

I suppose that if Hamas or/and Hezbollah were stop they actions or will be destroyed, then situation for Palestinians and for south Lebanon after some time will be better. As we saw, Israel can have peace and even some sort of cooperation with muslim countries, but the problem won't be solved until muslims don't kick off fanatics, same goes for Israel, there are also some fanatics and Israelis must do something with them.

As for Puma, with full up-armoring it should withstand at frontal arc older 120mm ammo and most of 125mm ammo.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

An IDF thread taking the wrong turn. How... unexpected.

[Lethaface]

Rich12545,

Ahem; it is factual that the Palestinians don't have their own country, the Israelis do. It is factual that more Palestinians die then Israelis. It is factual that Israel is building more new villages on OCCUPIED Palestinian territory. It is also factual that the USA, your country, supports Israel with 3 Billion dollars for defense every year.

I side with the only side that is sort of objective, the UN. According to international law Israel is in fact illegally occupying East Jeruzalem and ALL settlements in the Gaza strip and west-bank are illegal according to international law.

This is no opinion, nor propaganda, these are facts.

I think the Israeli media budget is slightly higher then it's Palestinian counterpart. Therefore it's Propaganda is much more effective then the Palestinians propaganda. Hence their ease in brainwashing you. Let me guess, you also believe that Fox's slogan 'Fair and balanced' is appropriate for their content? If so there is no point in me discussing with you.

I also don't discuss with people who believe the earth is flat or only 2010 years old, there is no point in that. They deny undeniable facts and therefore are not viable for any serious discussion about any serious topic.

For the record; Hamas is not really the party of my choice. However, the support for Hamas is created by Israel's policies the past 50 years. It is the democratic government of the Palestinians, that should be enough of a lesson for the state Israel.

---

If you just kept your post to the IFV, I wouldn't have reacted in this way.

Good luck to you.