molotov_billy Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 So I have two tiger tanks and 4 PZIV's slightly further back, all on a hill. I know this would happen, but apparently there were 6-7 anti-tank guns firing at the various tanks, mostly the tigers. I waited a full 25 minutes through this firing, and there was never a single anti-tank gun spotted. My tanks were eventually worn out, but they were facing frontally the entire time, and they had a perfect view of the area. Secondly, I had some infantry come up to the hill to hopefully spot the guns for the tanks. No dice. About 10 minutes of two full squads obvserving, only thing that they ever saw was an MG. I eventually just had to order direct fire on the gun ports, since I knew they had to be there. Kind of cheesy. Anyway, seems completely broken. What can I do to allow my tanks to spot anti-tank guns, other than charging suicidally in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Actually, it seems completely unbroken to me A well hidden anti-tank gun can be very hard to spot for a buttoned up tank, even if you know the general area to look for it. The tactical field manual would call for leaving a tank or two there and take the others around the flank to get a better vantage point on the enemy position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Moon, What about the infantry? Secondly, I had some infantry come up to the hill to hopefully spot the guns for the tanks. No dice. About 10 minutes of two full squads obvserving, only thing that they ever saw was an MG. Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 When you sent your infantry to the hill did they have a commander unit? This seems to be essential for decent, accurate spotting. Also, make sure the tanks are hull down if possible. I tend to use two tanks, one in an over-watch type of position, with both hull-down where possible. I use a single commander and use him to spot, but I keep him prone and hidden. The guns tend to target a single tank rather than both, so one is bait. The commander will eventually spot the gun, or at least a rough location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeeman Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I "cheat" but using line of site rule and watching forthe muzzle blasts.. IMO this works for me, harder to spot is much much better all around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Actually, it seems completely unbroken to me A well hidden anti-tank gun can be very hard to spot for a buttoned up tank, even if you know the general area to look for it. The tactical field manual would call for leaving a tank or two there and take the others around the flank to get a better vantage point on the enemy position. 6 tanks, twenty five minutes of firing. Broken! Describe in detail to me why a "flank" would provide a better vantage point, and what exactly a better vantage point would be - my tanks were sitting on the highest terrain possible, with clear lines of sight to the gun pits. Try it yourself. It's the first german scenario of the campaign. I know you're trying to play the salesman at this point in time, but please don't tell me that the scenario was correct - especially when in another thread a developer mentions that spotting values are broken and are being corrected in the first patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 When you sent your infantry to the hill did they have a commander unit? This seems to be essential for decent, accurate spotting. Also, make sure the tanks are hull down if possible. I tend to use two tanks, one in an over-watch type of position, with both hull-down where possible. I use a single commander and use him to spot, but I keep him prone and hidden. The guns tend to target a single tank rather than both, so one is bait. The commander will eventually spot the gun, or at least a rough location. Commanders can spot the anti-tank guns that 20 other men cannot? I don't understand. This wasn't even a problem of communicating the positions to the tanks. Not a single set of eyeballs on the map could see a single anti-tank gun. But is this really how the game works? I need to purchase a commander unit in order to spot enemy troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centauro Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Secondly, I had some infantry come up to the hill to hopefully spot the guns for the tanks. No dice. About 10 minutes of two full squads obvserving, only thing that they ever saw was an MG. This is weird, indeed. Scaring. I hope they'll look into it. Purchase a commander to spot a/t guns? WTF? Where in the world commanders were sent to look for a/t's ... ? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Commanders can spot the anti-tank guns that 20 other men cannot? I don't understand. This wasn't even a problem of communicating the positions to the tanks. Not a single set of eyeballs on the map could see a single anti-tank gun. But is this really how the game works? I need to purchase a commander unit in order to spot enemy troops? If you check the stats on the infantry squads they generally do not have 'spotting' ability to start with. Only commanders do. Furthermore, I don't understand why tanks cant unbutton. You try spotting a hidden AT gun through a small viewing hole at distance. You dont need to purchase a separate unit per se - the 'extra' commander units are mainly for morale purposes I believe. Each infantry squad has a commander. Use that single unit for spotting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robecq Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Scout squads have great spotting attibutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knokke Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 really? I might have been unlucky , but all the scout squads I tried had a leader with less than 10 in scouting skill, while the other squad members had 0. It would seems logical that even novice scouts should have at least a few ranks in scouting ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannwt26 Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 I sent a German Scout Squad onto the hill on the first map by sneaking them up there. I believe the commander had like a 90 in scouting and the rest were 50 or so. Didn't spot thing until my tanks got shot up by all of the AT guns. That seems a bit extreme, but I noticed when I play the first Russian mission the same thing happens. The russians decimate the German attack with few losses so it's consistent, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 I haven't been able to spot any AT guns from the hill yet, with any units. I've tried a bunch of tests, and it seems like individual riflemen in the trenches are easier to spot than anti-tank guns which are constantly firing. I've tried scouts, tanks, commanders, etc. Once in awhile I've spotted individual infantrymen that are crewing the gun, but never the lot of them, and never the gun itself. The only way I've been able to succeed in this mission is by dropping HE by direct fire into all of the gun pits. I really think this is a bug specifically with AT guns, as spotting seems to be fine otherwise. My tanks and infantrymen have no problem spotting man sized targets, and given enough time, will eventually clear out entire trench lines of infantry at range. But the AT gun in the same trench complex remains completely invisible, even though it's constantly firing. It's been a fun game so far, I've just had to cheese the AT stuff and fire into the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 I've not been able to spot AT guns, unless I'm very close, in trenches or dugouts post patch. Having said that, the tanks fire by themselves so something must be working here. It does seem odd that your tank can spot a single soldier sticking his head over the trench, but as you say, you don't see the AT guns firing at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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