[CAMP]Warriors in the Sands

[Blackcat]

Well, Herself kept me from gaming over the past couple of days, but I have now managed to catch up.

I got a surrender on the Hostage Rescue mission with 20 minutes still on the clock. I lost 4 dead and seven wounded, which I thought was very good given the nature of the fight. Most of the casualties where singles, occasioned when moving from house to house and a previously unknown Syrian unit revealed itself - it was impossible on this map to prep-fire every possible location in advance. I did get three Jackals into play and they did help on the couple of occasions when I could keep them far enough back but still with a line of sight.

For all my misgivings at the outset, I found that I did enjoy this mission and was quite disappointed when it came to an end before I could assault the Embassy - I had worked hard to get my people into a positions to launch the assault. I may have moved faster and had fewer casualties if I had remembered the helicopters. To be honest I forgot all about them!

Bardosy, you ask regarding my modern-day Stalingrad project. Yes, it has to be infantry heavy. To go into urban areas otherwise against a national army would, I think, be suicide. However, I am stalled on the project due to my poor skills on map design/building. I would appreciate your help and advice, maybe you could contact me off-line through the private message system.

Oh, Bardosy, one small thing for your briefing pages in any future British scenarios/campaigns that you produce. The organisation commonly, but wrongly, called MI5 has responsibility for the internal security of the UK. It is part of the Home Office and would have no part to play in overseas, pro-active operations. The British intelligence organisation that would be involved in a Syrian campaign is the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS), sometimes, and even more wrongly, called MI6, which is part of the Foreign Office. I know its a trivial point in game terms, but its nice to get these things correct.

The Devon and Dorset Regiment also ceased to exist in 2007, before the events of CMSF are supposed to have happened, but that was just a piece of vandalism by the MOD so I'll say no more. The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, a line infantry regiment, of great distinction (6 Victoria Crosses before breakfast in one operation) is still going strong, next time you are looking for a subject...

[Blackcat]

Dear God, Bardosy! I have just started the airport mission and have to ask were the British planners drunk? Pincer movements are all very well, but having one's assault pioneers isolated (and, from what I can make out so far, outnumbered in a city fight with just one warrior for support) whilst the infantry that need their explosive support are on the far side of the airfield smacks of incompetence or inebriation. This must be the biggest Staff f**k up since the Third Battle of Ypres!

Oh, well as with Third Ypres, ours is not to wonder why and all that. It is more a case of:

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;

Or close the wall up with our English dead.

In peace there's nothing so becomes a man

As modest stillness and humility:

But when the blast of war blows in our ears,

Then imitate the action of the tiger;

Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,

Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;

Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;

Let pry through the portage of the head

Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it

As fearfully as doth a galled rock

O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,

Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.

Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,

Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit

To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.

Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!

Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,

Have in these parts from morn till even fought

And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:

Dishonour not your mothers; now attest

That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.

Be copy now to men of grosser blood,

And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,

Whose limbs were made in England, show us here

The mettle of your pasture; let us swear

That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;

For there is none of you so mean and base,

That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.

I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit, and upon this charge

Cry 'God for Bardosy, England, and Saint George!"

[Blackcat]

Well I finshed the campaign, with a tactical victory - which was a bit of a surprise as none of the mission went the distance. I presume I took too many casualties overall.

I had to abandon my first attempt at the airport mission after about twenty game minutes as I had just taken too many casualties in taking the mosque. Not actually a great number of WIA and KIA as such but with the weak Brit squads you lose two or three men and the rest don't have the firepower to do much good.

Second go round, I had an idea of the reinforcements I could expect, so I took things a little easier (and by then I realised the importance of the raised highway Bardosy had put in), and got a surrender with about 30 minutes left on the clock. It was still, by a long shot, the hardest fight in the campaign for my money.

The final mission was a bit of a turkey shoot. I lost three warriors and a couple of crew members and that was it. I could have avoided that if I hadn't been saving my Javelins for the tanks.

All in all an excellent campaign, most enjoyable. Thank you, Bardsoy.

Does anyone know what the difference is with the USMC version? I fired it up but the initial briefing and first scenario seemed the same. I had thought that it might be the same campaign but with the USMC replacing the Devon and Dorset battlegroup, which would have been fun.

[handihoc]

I haven't yet played the Airport mission or beyond (no time) but from what I remember when I helped out with the briefings, the only difference with the USMC version is that in the Airport mission the Syrians have elite Airborne troops.

Maybe also US Marines when the Brits and Yanks finally link up, but I may be wrong on that. I'm sure Bardosy will put us right, though.

[Blackcat]

Thanks, Handihoc. I am sure you will enjoy the Airport when you get the time - Bardosy excelled himself on that one.

The Syrian Special Forces chaps are stubborn. There was a squad of them in one building. I knew they were there so decided to give them some serious prep fire. I put in 60+ rounds of 30mm HE followed by ten (10) game minutes of 7.62 MG fire. When my infantry squad finally assaulted (still under MG covering fire), the sole Syrian survivor took down three of them and forced the other four to run away (two with yellow wound markers). Against those guys flame throwers would be helpful. Keep the Scimitars and their replacements, I want Churchill Crocodiles.

[HighlandLaddie]

Bardosy,

I just played the 1st Mission in your Warriors in the Sand campaign, I like the map very much, and am looking forward to the other parts of the campaign. I have a couple of questions.

From my reading of the description, I took it that I was to break through the crust and exit at the far end, before Syrian reaction forces had time to arrive to interdict the route. I kept all my forces mounted, the inf platoon in Warriors going up the main road with the FO's Spartan, and the Scimitars and Bulldog going hell for leather on the left flank. Both groups used suppressive fire on likely ambush locations, and we arrived at the far end in about 7 minutes with the loss of only the Spartan -- hit by AT from the stand of trees near the road, with a loss of the driver and FO, and also the radio op, who "routed" and could not be found to be picked up by the Bulldog (the only vehicle with any room). No other casualties or damage to any other vehicles. So far so good.

Now here are the two problems I hope you can help me with: first, I found that my vehicles would not exit the map at the spot marked "exit," but simply piled up at the map's edge -- where two of the traffic-jammed Scimitars were destroyed by infantry by the roadside. How does one exit?

Second, as I contemplated the pile up, I got a notice saying (heretofore unmentioned) reinforcement have arrived, and found that the Maneuver Coy's 2 command vehicles are just entering the map back at the gorge, presumably to make the trip on their own.

I appear to have misjudged what I was supposed to be doing in this mission, but, to be fair, I think I had a little help from the vague instructions, which describe the need to get to the destination above all else, and never mention follow on ground forces. Yes?

[bardosy]

@BlackCat:

1., Thanks for the correction about MI5. When I was kid I read a book and I rembebered - possible wrong - MI5 is the millitary intelligence. There is any codename for British military intelligence?

2., You had lack of IFV-s on Mosque side, because you lost them in previous missions. In the original mission you have a lot of IFV on that side too. But I happily hear you can solve the Mosque. Souldierz - he's a betatester from here - enjoyed that fight against mosque and he forget to capture the airport, because he focused only for that "front".

3., The USMC version has only differency - as handihoc said - in the Airport mission there are Syrian Airborne instead of Special Forces. But belive me: airborne guys are thougher then SF...

If you like this style (mechanized infantry operation) try my previous campaign: Task Force Nawrick. It's not USMC, but US Army campaign based on Bradley IFV.

@HighlandLaddie:

Sorry to hear your adventure. I never thought anybody will run through the map with high speed. Many people test these missions, but no one did it.

I understand you thought there is an Exit on the other side of the map as in CMx1 series, but unfortunately there is no EXIT zone in CMSF... (But I heard rumors, it will be in next CMx2 game).

My advice is to restart this mission and advance cautious. Clear your way and defend the reinforcements - even it is a commander or spotter - from the side attacks.

[HighlandLaddie]

Thanks for the info, Bardosy.

Actually, I didn't use high speed for the platoon mounted in Warriors, just regular Movement. The Scimitars did use Quick for the most part, as they were pretty visible going over the saddleback to the left of the road, and any enemy on that map is closer to them than is healthy.

Are there further ground reinforcements after the two command vehicles? I don't know what the enemy is going to do, but I like to know what my own battalion is up to.

[handihoc]

Highland Laddie,

That's an interesting approach - it never occurred to me to charge hell for leather for the exit as I assumed there were too many nasties lying in wait. Not sure now whether that is the optimal approach or whether you were simply lucky not to have taken higher casualties.

It's great when someone comes up with something different and kind've turns the mission on its head. To answer your question about exiting - the game doesn't actually allow for units to physically leave the battle (unless I've missed something vital!). So when you arrive at the exit area you will have to turn and fight anything there until victory conditions are met and the battle ends.

I've found this in other missions (not in this campaign). It would be preferable if units could be removed, although they would then of course be lost should they be needed later to support their oncoming buddies. Not sure what the best approach would be for this.

Anyway, hope you enjoy the rest of the campaign. Overall, it's a very good one.

[HighlandLaddie]

bardosy,

One other question: any particular reason for selecting the Devon & Dorsets? Sentimental attachment?

The reason why I ask is because the regiment (now amalgamated with the Glosters and renamed 1/Rifles) is designated as a light/commando role infantry battalion, brigaded with the Royal Marines, and wouldn't be operating in Warriors. A battalion from the regiment that would act as mechanized or armored infantry would be 5/Rifles (the old King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry) or 4/Rifles (formerly known as the 95th Rifles, the Rifle Brigade, and 2/Royal Green Jackets).

Interestingly, 4/Rifles CO is now Lt Col Rupert Jones, the son of Lt Col "H" Jones, who won a posthumous VC leading 2/Para at Goose Green in the Falklands, and who began his career as an officer in . . . the Devon & Dorsets.

[Blackcat]

Bardosy,

British military intelligence, is, like most things in the British Army, an apparent b*ggers muddle that shouldn't work but actually does pretty well. Aside from so of the more shadowy outfits there are two main organisations, the Defence Intelligence Agency (which does normally concentrates on analysis and works mostly at the strategic level) and the Intelligence Corps, which is part of the army proper and which carries out a variety of roles from running informants and other information gathering through analysis to providing advice and liaison down to battlegroup level. In terms of briefing pages for CMSF, I think I wuld simply say, "Intelligence suggests..."

Right off to download your US Army campaign.

[bardosy]

@handihoc

You don1t miss anything! There is no exit zone in Cmx2 yet.

In CMx1 series there is and it warks fine, because when the unit is left the battlefield, you got extra victory points. So you can win a mission with send all of your units into the exit zone...

I read somewhere - maybe about CM:Afghanistan - there will be exit zone again. I hope there will be in Normandy... (Errr... )

@HighlandLaddie:

There is no reason why I choose Devon & Dorsets. I'm really sorry, but I completly dumb about British military units. Of course I can named the Brits in Market-Garden and I try my best to study Falkland too (I just ordered a book about 3 Para a few days ago). But I don't know the British units.

I just want to create a playable, fun-oriented British campaign for CMSF. And I love IFVs, so I decided to a Warrior-oriented unit. But I didn1t named it before I finished the campaign. I read the internet and wikipedia about British units and somehow I found an interesting, one of the British unit motto is same as USMC "Semper Fidelis". It was Dorset, and I named "my" unit to Dorset, but Handihoc - who helped me a lot with briefings - suggest me to use the whole name "Devon & Dorsets", because Dorset unified with Devon. So I did.

Well, I'm sorry for my weak knowledge, I try to study more.

[Blackcat]

Bardosy,

I had a rummage in the repository last night and I couldn't find your campaign, "Task Force Nawrick". Can you tell me where to find it, please?

Re your comment to learn more about the units in the British Army, I admire your enthusiasm, but I wouldn't bother if I were you - assuming your comment was not made with tongue firmly in cheek. The effort that will involved won't be justified by the benefits. Highland Laddies' post give some hints as to the complexities involved.

Like all European armies, the British infantry was divided into light infantry and line infantry (in which, for the sake of simplicity, I will include Guard and Grenadier formations) and this distinction has continued pretty much to the present day. However, as Highland Laddie notes, the modern Regiment known as The Rifles is a multi-battalion amalgamation of the old light infantry regiments and yet two of the battalions are equipped and trained to perform a line, or heavy, infantry role but not the other three.

One of those battalions is the old Rifle Brigade, which was, of course, a regiment not a brigade. Similarly, another old light infantry formation, The Kings Royal Rifle Corps, was also a regiment not a corps. However, The Royal Regiment of Artillery is in fact a corps not a regiment.

Furthermore, until the most recent round of amalgamations a lot of, if not most, regiments had only a single battalion. So if one were referring to, say the Grenadier Guards one could, depending on the context, be talking about an infantry battalion or a regiment. Not that the latest amalgamations have simplified things. For instance you might see in the press reports about the activities of the Black Watch, yet that regiment no longer exists - it is now one of the battalions of the new Royal Regiment of Scotland (not to be confused with the Royal Scots, aka Pontius Pilate's bodyguard, which was also subsumed into the new regiment). Of course where regiments do have multiple battalions they seldom, if ever, fight together as a regiment - though they will often fight against each other in pubs of garrison towns.

As for the cavalry regiments, well that is a closed book even to me. You have to have served in the arm to have any chance of understanding it.

Fold in the modern battlegroup concept and, honestly, you will find it easier and more rewarding trying to explain the game of cricket to an American than working out the units of the British Army and their roles in modern warfare.

[bardosy]

A quick replay: Sorry, I thought the Narwick is in the Repository, but it isn't... I'll do it (upload) in the near future. But you can download directly from me:

http://lacko.pcdome.hu/CMSF/TFNarwick.zip

[tyrspawn]

Played the first two missions so far, about to start the third... extremely well done.

The missions themselves are perfect but I would recommend taking the briefings a little bit more seriously - they are not particularly useful or realistic, at least compared to the module briefings.

[HighlandLaddie]

Blackcat, At least the Rifle Brigade (of "Sharpe's Rifles" fame in the Peninsula and at Waterloo) has a modern history of being mechanized, as units of the regiment were used as the first British Motor Battalions -- infantry attached directly to armoured formations -- in WWII.

Interestingly, the 2/Rifles (now in light role, and recently back from Afghanistan), also a rifle regiment (the 60th Rifles, or King's Royal Rifle Corps), got its start as the Royal Americans, recruiting light infantry in my neck of the Hudson, in what we call the French and Indian War. Michael Yon writes a typically vivid dispatch about the battalion's time in Helmand here: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/an-artery-of-opium-a-vein-of-taliban.htm

[Blackcat]

Highland Laddie,

Yup, I know about the KRRC. One of my grandfathers served with them from 1901 to 1919. He was in India when WWI broke out and, according to his paybook, had just completed the mounted infantry course when his battalion was ordered to embark for France.

God alone knows why a rifle regiment should have wanted mounted troops, maybe it was for the early equivalent of the recce platoon. Unfortunatley the old boy died before I was old enough to know what questions I needed to ask him. I can still remember his "fits" though - he would suddenly go rigid and start shouting, "They're coming over! They're f*cking coming!", before collapsing unconscious for a couple of minutes. When he came to it was as if nothing had happened. The "fits" could happen at anytime and place and that was in the late fifties, forty years after the war. Nobody then was talking about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, the family just got on with life.

[bardosy]

Fortunately I have short memory, so a few weeks/months later, I can play with my own missions, because I completly forgot the enemy positions... So I started this campaign to PLAY.

I'm in the 4th mission and the only thing I remembered about it, is the high casuality rating what I earned in the beta-tests, so I use my old, heavy-infantry trick, to push suppress on every suspected buildings with autocannon. But Warriors have much less ammo then Bradleys... So I'm curious when they stop shooting. Now I'm in the 1/3 of the map with minimal casualities... but maybe low on ammo... It will be an interesting test: can I use Warriors as Bradleys?

[Blackcat]

Fortunately I have short memory, so a few weeks/months later, I can play with my own missions, because I completly forgot the enemy positions... So I started this campaign to PLAY.

I'm in the 4th mission and the only thing I remembered about it, is the high casuality rating what I earned in the beta-tests, so I use my old, heavy-infantry trick, to push suppress on every suspected buildings with autocannon. But Warriors have much less ammo then Bradleys... So I'm curious when they stop shooting. Now I'm in the 1/3 of the map with minimal casualities... but maybe low on ammo... It will be an interesting test: can I use Warriors as Bradleys?

You can use Warriors in the same way as Bradleys, but not for long. Each Warrior will run out of HE after about two minutes worth of firing. So even with the force size in mission 4 there is not enough ammo to "brass-up" every suspect location with 30mm HE and 7.62mm isn't terribly effective in that role.

For me playing the Brits requires a different approach; I need to play at a slower, gentler, tempo, take more indirect routes, be conservative with ammo and troopers lives. I tend to push slowly forward with infantry and only when they are covered by warriors (normally from at least 300 metres further back). By dashing short distances from cover to cover I hope that the infantry will provoke a response from the defence, which the Warriors respond to, and the infantry avoid getting caught in the open.

For my money, the British Artillery is their best asset, it is responsive, accurate and usually has three tubes per battery.

When the British infantry runs out of support fire, they lose. Small squads, low ammo levels and no HE chuckers to back them up makes it hard, if not impossible, to make progress against heavy-infantry opposition.

[bardosy]

Yeah, in the forst 3 missions I advanced on British way. But when 4th started and I saw the open area between setup zone and first objectives, I just thry the good, old yankie way. Probably you right, and if Warriors run out of auto-cannon ammo, I'll loose. But it was a test...

Three tubes RULEZ! I love it.

And more, I love the platoon HQ's small mortar too. Usually it's useless, but in the previous mission one of my plt HQ used their mortar on an enemy trench and eliminate a a big enemy squad with one mortar shell. That was a suprise for me... Because Warriors couldn't deal that thred, becaue they were in a trench.

[Blackcat]

Bardosy, you could always try my Charge of the Light Brigade tactic. This involves sitting still for one or two minutes with the warriors behind cover and dismounted units watching the objectives for signs of movement and enemies. Then assuming nothing is spotted, you slam down some smoke if you can (the 51mm is good for this) and charge foward with the warriors - using way points to put down surpressing fire on the move and to pop smoke - then screech to a halt right by the objective and assault in. Done right this can be a very effective way of crossing wide open spaces, done wrongly it is suicide.

The 51mm mortar, which replaced the neat 2 Inch job in service during my days in the infantry, is a nice bit of kit in the game. In the right circumstances, as the example you quoted, it can be a life-saver (I also like its ability to fire just over crest lines). My only gripe is that it can't be split off from the platoon HQ.

[bardosy]

Hey guys!

I just playing with the editor, and rework my maps with marine units... Eg: this morning I created a mission with my own marine core unit (a company, a LAV platoon and 3 AAV) on Warrior's 3rd map, but in reverse... Marines start in the surface mine (east side) and attack to the west...

Did you interesting these missions? I know it's not a real big work (but fun!)

[Blackcat]

Hey guys!

I just playing with the editor, and rework my maps with marine units... Eg: this morning I created a mission with my own marine core unit (a company, a LAV platoon and 3 AAV) on Warrior's 3rd map, but in reverse... Marines start in the surface mine (east side) and attack to the west...

Did you interesting these missions? I know it's not a real big work (but fun!)

If you want it tested I would be happy to oblige. If you don't want it tested I'd be happy to play it. In short, hand it over, there's a good chap.

[bardosy]

Hi BlackCat!

You can download two USMC mission from HERE.

These missions has a core USMC unit (an extremely reduced MEU) and play on the maps of Warriors campaign. Because of core units, it is possible to string these missions in a USMC campaign...

[Blackcat]

Morning Bardosy,

Got the files and firing up the game (the wife has gone out!). Thanks