bowen42 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Will the initial bugs and setbacks that were patched and fixed in CMSF automatically be patched for CM Normandy and Afghanistan?Or will they start out with the same issues and have to be patched?Will they have their own new set of issues to be fixed since new things are being added like water and anti-tank guns? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 bowen42, The safe bet would be "Yes" for the former, since BFC is designing it in house. Am not sure what the answer is for the latter, since that's in an outside design team's hands. It would be prudent to expect new issues to arise, for these are very complex combat simulations and will be breaking new ground at times. Already, the sharp-eyed have found glitches in the Muj weaponry for the second item, in the form of a Lee-Enfield rifle sans magazine. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Why would they start with the same issues as CMSF had? That just doesn't make any sense at all! They are hardly going to throw away al the advances made in the last few years. Will there be a all new bugs? I'm sure there will be, there always are. But I doubt it'd be anything like the CMSF release. Which was problematic because it was their first shot with the new engine and they were obliged to publish when they did on account of the Paradox deal . No such pressure exists now and the engine is already in pretty good shape. I'm not worried on this account at all. Especially as the time passed has proved that BFC stand by their products. Unlike The Creative Assembly, who've given up on Empire Total War. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Will the initial bugs and setbacks that were patched and fixed in CMSF automatically be patched for CM Normandy and Afghanistan?Or will they start out with the same issues and have to be patched? No, this game uses the CMx2 engine and not a 'new' one. Where you might see problems is with the new stuff that is being added to the engine as you mentioned here... Will they have their own new set of issues to be fixed since new things are being added like water and anti-tank guns? Trust me. The Normandy Beta Testers are all over this and reporting anything they find as you are reading this. With so much new stuff going in it's not beyond the realms of all possibility that there may be a few wrinkles in the first release. BFC needs to sell games to stay in business so they can't sit on it until everything is perfected. That will never happen and so there will come a time when they must put the title out. But if there are then you know that BFC will have them fixed within a patch or two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 "Will the initial bugs and setbacks that were patched and fixed in CMSF automatically be patched for CM Normandy and Afghanistan?Or will they start out with the same issues and have to be patched?" It's still the same basic engine. So I'm confident that improvements and fixes made to fundamental aspects of the game engine that are necessary for any modern era tactical wargame will carry over -- e.g., improvements/bug fixes to areas such as pathfinding, spotting, targeting, etc. One major improvement to CMSF that will definitely carry over is the so-called "Enhanced LOS" system, which is added about v1.08 IIRC, and substantially improved spotting and targetting. Will they have their own new set of issues to be fixed since new things are being added like water and anti-tank guns? I'm sure this will be the case as well. Among other things, water and ATGs will be totally new to the engine with CM:N. So I'm sure some bugs will slip through for new things like this. On the plus side, since the more fundamental issues above have already been worked out, the bugs should be fewer overall and more subtle. For me personally, the most aggravating bugs in the early CMSF versions were the issues very basic stuff, such as infantry squad formation and pathfinding. Pathfinding and infantry squad formation will probably never be 100% perfect - it's an extremely complex thing to code. But it's VASTLY better now in CMSF than it was at initial release. And while there will need to be some refinement in this area for CM:N (There are some significant differences in the was a WWII-era squad moved and fought, vs. the way a modern one does), But I am optimistic that a good 90% of the improvements in CMSF should carry over, meaning most of the design, coding, and beta testing time can go to getting the changes and refinements right. In summary, if you're expecting a perfect game with v1.0, you're going to be disappointed. Actually, I hope CM:N isn't *too* perfect on release day -- I want BFC to push themselves to get as many new model features and refinements into the new game as possible, and if it's too polished at release, this means they played it conservative, and probably could have gotten more stuff in, at the cost of a few more bugs to be ironed out in the first months after release. But overall, I expect we're going to see a much more complete product at initial release than was the case with CMSF. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Yes, but is the flammability of thatched roofed houses correctly modelled? THAT is the only question... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Yes, but is the flammability of thatched roofed houses correctly modelled? THAT is the only question... Not so. We still have no official word on whether there will be cows, both alive and dead. How can it be Normandy without cows, pray tell? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 How long until this degenerates into another 'cowbell' thread... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 But even they add cows, how do we know if they will model all the important tactical considerations. I certainly won't be buying the game if the herd grazing path-finding does not properly correlate to the relative grass density of the terrain tiles and historical grazing tendencies of french cows.... Not to mention will the proper armor and damage model be incorporated on the cows to facilitate their use as cover? Do we have any word on the structural stability modeling of cows vs sustained MG fire? If it's not done right it'll break the immersion when my squad gets pinned down in a field full of dead cows. Will my soldiers assume the proper bovine supported firing posture?!?! How long until this degenerates into another 'cowbell' thread... And yes, can my soldiers detect nearby cows by audio? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 And they'll have to say 'Meu' and not 'Moo'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Will the initial bugs and setbacks that were patched and fixed in CMSF automatically be patched for CM Normandy and Afghanistan?Or will they start out with the same issues and have to be patched?Will they have their own new set of issues to be fixed since new things are being added like water and anti-tank guns? I heard that BF will re-introduce all the old bugs, as a sorta trip down frustration lane, redux. Then they will take the year off and pretend/act like they're working hard fixing it. All while vacationing and slowly trickling out the patches. The community will praise and cheer them, since we're all jackasses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 MeatEtr, Outstanding and totally twisted! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 MeatEtr, Outstanding and totally twisted! Regards, John Kettler I do what I can to contribute. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I heard that BF will re-introduce all the old bugs, as a sorta trip down frustration lane, redux. Then they will take the year off and pretend/act like they're working hard fixing it. All while vacationing and slowly trickling out the patches. The community will praise and cheer them, since we're all jackasses. Thanks for the update. I was beginning to think we'd have nothing to gripe about with CM:N But we'll always have one or two things to mumble over: When the hell is CM:BOB (Battle of the Bulge) or or CM-BARF (Berlin: Assault Russian Final) coming out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 bowen42, Here's what Steve said earlier about new features in CM: Afghanistan. From here http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=87722&highlight=the+beast&page=4 Sorry for leaving you guys hanging. In our defense, it wasn't our choice to have someone figure this out over the 4th of July holiday weekend So here comes some off-the-cuff responses: Many months ago we partnered with a Russian developer (not 1C, BTW) whom we have worked with on several other projects. They wanted to make an Afghanistan game for the Russian market. Since the CMx2 engine is designed to be worked on by outside developers *and* almost all of the requirements for this setting already existed *and* it wouldn't interfere with CM:SF and Normandy development... well, it was a no-brainer to do it. This is not a Module for CM:SF. It is a stand alone Title with completely new forces and a modest number of new features. None of the TO&E in CM:SF is found in this new game, though of course a lot of the hardware is the same. But not everything is familiar to you guys. I'm going to leave it at that for now There are four forces, two on each side; Soviet and DRA (Democratic Republic of Afghanistan) forces are on one side, Tribal Militias and Islamic Regiments (Mujahideen, as most in the West think of them) are on the other side. In comparison to CM:SF, the Soviet BMP and BTR borne Mech Infantry are the only ones that are relatively familiar to CM:SF players. That is because the Syrian equivalent was based on a slightly newer version of these forces. The rest of the Soviet forces, however, are not similar. The modest number of new features in Afghanistan are ones which players will get a hold of in Normandy and beyond. The two significant gameplay changes are AAA in ground role and "random" personal weapons variations. By "random" I mean there are defined choices and the game dynamically assigns personal weapons within those parameters. This greatly increases the variety of weaponry found in the hands of any single Tribal Militia and Islamic Regiment unit, which in turn gives them a much less organized feel than the CM:SF Unconventional forces have. You can have anything from a contemporary top-of-the-line full automatic rifle to a surplus WW2 bolt action rifle within the same Squad/Team, then have a different mix of weapons for the next Squad/Team. The campaigns and scenarios are historically based, thus giving the player a feel for the Afghanistan conflict as it played out. Like everything else in the Afghanistan game, we didn't make these. In fact, most of our beta testers had no idea this game was in development. We tell them almost everything about what is going on, with an emphasis on "almost" Sooooooooooooo.... The bottom line question I know you have is "if I have CM:SF, will I want to purchase this new Afghanistan game?". Honestly, unless you have a particular interest in the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan, or are hankering for some of the new stuff that the game has in it, I'd say the answer is "unlikely". I say that because this is definitely a niche game which appeals to a particular national audience, much the way American Civil War has much stronger appeal to US based gamers and Napoleonics has to Western Europeans. Or, to put it in CMx1 terms, just like many people loved the Western Front and didn't buy into the Eastern Front, or Eastern Front people not buying into Afrika Korps. Which is fine with us since making lowest common denominator games isn't what we are about. To sum up... In the end this game was made by Russians for the Russian market. If there are non-Russians outside of the Russian market who want to play this game... great! The more the merrier But if people outside of the targeted demographic aren't interested, no harm done since this hasn't interfered with anything BFC is doing nor will it harm the potential of the Afghanistan game since it wasn't made to please the wider wargaming audience. We've said all along that CMx2 was designed for parallel and outside development. We weren't joking Steve Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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