So, the Iraqis unhappy with theor stretched M117s?

[MikeyD]

Hot off he presses:

Iraq just signed a deal to purchase 420 BTR-4s. It rather looks like it'll be their version of Stryker (with more firepower)! They had purchased a big batch of stretch-body M1117 Defenders previously. I guess that wasn't enough of a vehicle for them. There's also that American connection they might want to start squirming out from under, too.

Here's their new vehicle.

[MikeyD]

Lord, I messed up the headline. Substitute "thier stretched M1117s"

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Their?

Don't mind me,it's not my language you are butchering.

[Sequoia]

Yeah you've been making a lot of typos lately. I thought you were just drinking.

[YankeeDog]

Eh? That's not a BMP-4. I think it's a BTR-4. A BMP-4 would be tracked.

[flamingknives]

The M1117 is a very different beastie to the BTR-4 and the BTR-4 (what the Iraqis are after) is a very different beastie to the BMP-4.

Oh, and it should be "their stretched M1117s"

The key thing about Russian arms is that they tend to be cheaper than the US versions.

[MikeyD]

Oh my God, my typing skills seem to have entirely fallen apart (had to fix three typos in just this line!) BTR-4, of course.

[Bigduke6]

That is a BTR-4 made in Ukraine. Most definately not Russian arms.

As I understand it, there are a couple of very irate weapons suppliers out there, it appears the Iraqis went straight to the manufacturer, cut out some middlemen. The BTRs are about 800 million bucks of a 2.4 billion dollar order to be filled over three years. It's advertised at 1.5 to 2.0 million dollars a vehicle, how many Strykers can you get for that?

Here's the linkie for the Ukrainian company selling the stuff:

http://www.ukrspetsexport.com/UseSite2/faces/catalog_en.jsp

The BTR-4 is pretty cool, as you can see it's got this spiffy modular turret the Ukrainians can put all sorts of weapons into, chain guns, MG, grenade launchers, ATGM, etc. I have read Macedonia is in on the production for some subassemblies, but don't know for what exactly. You can get it basic armor or with an upgraded package that makes it resistant to .50, if you believe the manufacturer.

Other big items in this arms deal are 10 x An-32 transport planes, a pair of Mi-8 helicopters, and an undetermined number of Bulat tanks, which is a Ukrainian T-64 upgraded with all sorts of bells, whistles, thermals, reactive armor, radios, anti-ATGM mist dispensers, etc. Also munitions, and also also there's a maintenance contract so Ukrainian technicians help take care of all this junk.

[YankeeDog]

...It's advertised at 1.5 to 2.0 million dollars a vehicle, how many Strykers can you get for that?

Well, cost of the first batch of Strykers to the US Gov. was $3mil. each, but the official per-unit production cost is now down to $1.42mil. I don't know what that includes in the way of bells and whistles (might actually be bare, w/ only base armor and no RWS). But this would put the export price in the same ballpark as the BTR-4.

[MikeyD]

Stryker cage armor + MEXAS tiles initially rang in at around half million per vehicle, but that doesn't include a LOT of armor additions and upgrades, and redoing the suspension system to cope. A report in early '08 put the price of 92 Stryker MGS at $484 million. About $5.2 million each

[c3k]

I demand the BTR-4 be included in the next patch. This game is, wait for it,... fundamentally flawed, without it!

Okay, all kidding aside, that thing's weaponry LOOKS pretty damn serious. CMSF2?

Ken

[Ryujin]

Probably won't be in CMSF2 unless Ukraine is featured, they bought 10 or something so far, maybe they'll buy more later.

I've been researching these for a game I'm working on, it's quite the vehicle if the manufacturer is to be believed.

Armament is nice, 30mm gun, coax AGS-17 and PKT, plus 4 AT5 missiles (on the GROM/standard turrets). Plus there is a 120mm mobile gun system with a 40 round (!) capacity. Not to mention the dual 23mm cannon turret. However it looks like once you've used up the ammo in the RWS turrets, reloading is a major ordeal. Also one of the turret options features the decent Shkval optics.

It can mount a slat armor kit and I think the add-on armor supposedly protects up in the 20-30mm area. I think it's still amphibious with the extra armor on (maybe not with the slats).

There's also a recon version with an optics periscope of some kind and command, recovery, and medical versions.

Seems a lot like the stryker concept meets the eastern concept of putting crazy amounts of weapons on everything.

[c3k]

The 120mm gun system sounds like a breech loading mortar to me. That actually sounds better than the 105mm MGS Stryker; no recoil problems, more ammo, much better HE effect. The drawback is you lose some penetratrion, which shouldn't be an issue for an infantry support vehicle. Javelins are there for the enemy tanks; the 105mm needs a lucky break regarding target aspect to expect a kill vs. modern Soviet tanks. So, all the 105 can offer over a breech loading 120mm mortar is a bit of bunker penetration.

Ken

[dan/california]

We are talking about Iraqis and Ukrainians here, there is a kickback hidden in that deal somewhere that would level a Clydesdale. I'd bet the farm on it, well, if I had a farm.....

[Bigduke6]

dan/california,

Ya think?

Strangely enough, as a matter of fact the Ukrainians on Friday finally got around to giving a press conference. The deal is on the up and up, a perfectly legitimate state-to-state transfer, we know this to be the case because they said so.

The great part of it is, every bit of the money is American, Washington gave the Iraqis 3.8 billion dollars to spend on arms for FY 2010. Your tax dollars at work, good thing there is nothing stateside needing government support.

[MikeyD]

Talk about Iraqi military equipment, this should satisfy any requirement for some Blue vs Blue tank battles in the game:

Dec 8/09: General Dynamics Land Systems, Inc. in Sterling Heights, MI received a $14.3 million cost-no-fee contract for material for the Iraq program to purchase 140 M1A1 Abrams vehicles... ...The tanks will apparently be new-build, not transferred from American stocks. With this purchase, Iraq would become the 4th M1 Abrams operator in the region, joining Egypt (M1A1s), Kuwait (M1A2), and Saudi Arabia (M1A2-SEP variant).