c3k Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Gents, Playing more with the Brits, I've forgotten the name of the dune-buggy thing (okay, it's the TUM WMIK), but they don't behave as I'd expect. First, take one of them with it's 3 man crew where you have a driver, commander (manning the 7.62mm up front, then the gunner up on the main weapon, either a .50 or a 40mm grenade launcher. Next, put it too close to the enemy such that the gunner gets taken out. (I do that a lot ). They will NOT man the main weapon. The 7.62mm has priority. Okay, they can hold 2 passengers. I've got some guys running around, survivors, riff-raff, the odd crew; I'll use them to man the gun. So, load a couple of passengers. Nope, they don't to man the main weapon either. Okay, the TUM WMIK shows 2 of 3 crew, 2 of 2 passengers. Maybe I need to load a single extra guy to get him to man the weapon. Nope, cannot load another soldier. Sure, there's blood all over the thing, but I'd think I could SOMEHOW convince someone to get up on the weapon. (Repeated item, not just a "one-off".) Any thoughts? Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Seen it to, cursed it to. would appreciate a fix indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Second that. Same here. It's especially annoying when you only have two guys left and the bloke riding shotgun refuses to let go of his GPMG. Would be good to give the heavy weapon priority over the 7.62 in that case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thanks for the confirmation! BF.C; any chance of tweaking this? Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Broken main gun? Buttoned? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 flamingknives; No, to both possibilities. Gun (.50 or 40mm both in green) okay; the position is left unmanned, regardless of how many other crew or passengers get loaded. In fact, you CANNOT load another passenger to man the main weapon. 3 crew positions, 2 passenger positions; remove the gunner due to enemy fire and have no passengers on board. That leaves 3 open seats; 2 passengers and 1 gunner. You cannot load more than two passengers. Neither one will man the gun. The other crew member will not man the gun. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I have been able to in the past. How odd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 As far as I know it should work as you guys are expecting, but I can think of a reason why it isn't. We're looking into it. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm running a test as I type. I took a Javelin WMIK (GPMG on the top ring) and split the javelin detachment, putting two men in the front. I then mounted a sniper HQ (one man) and he took up the ring mount position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Sure, there's blood all over the thing, but I'd think I could SOMEHOW convince someone to get up on the weapon. I use loaded shotgun. Has it worked? Quite surprisingly not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Agreed: it HAS worked, but I can't remember exactly how or when, or exactly which vehicle displayed this behavior. Hence, my specification of the TUM WMIK .50 and TUM WMIK GMG. Thanks for checking.... Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I saw this happen just the other day, so I tried to recreate the issue. Indeed, it only seems to affect the WMIK with HMG and GMG (fire support section, IIRC). A lost crewman cannot be replaced with another soldier and his weapon is not taken over by another crewman. Some pics to better illustrated the problem: WMIK GMG lost its gunner. The guy at the 7.62 does not take over the GMG. After loading a 2-man command team onto the WMIK, the GMG is still unmanned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Im pretty sure that the spartan APC has the same problem. You can't use the MG, even with passangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 birdstrike, Well done! Thanks for taking the time, not only to test it, but to post screenshots. Confirmation is nice. Also note that noone can fill in the missing crewmember seat. Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomir Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Im pretty sure that the spartan APC has the same problem. You can't use the MG, even with passangers. CM:SF moves in mysterious ways... :confused: Hi, hcrof. Screenshots of a Spartan APC's GPMG manned and shooted by a passenger: Notice the portrait of the Troop HQ in the second screenshot. Don't know for sure, but I have the feeling that these are the only ones that can make use of the APC's weapons coming from the passenger seats. The rest, after giving an "Open Up" command, will just pop up through the top hatch and will stay there spotting. Trick: if their weapon is not represented in the Team Info Panel (the central one), they are actually manning the vehicle's gun. If it is represented, forget shooting in any way with that guy - IIRC, they won't even use their own assault rifle! Hope it helps somehow, Cheers, Lomir 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I stand corrected! I will have to go over my savegames again, thanks for the test 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I wonder if the issue is related to the new dismount-able weapon systems? Has anyone noticed something similar with the Humvees? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 Gents, Some more fun. Let me set the stage. I had a Bulldog. It only had a driver by this point. He ran away. Rpg's or something. Wuss. Anyway, that left me with a DISMOUNTED Bulldog which had a perfectly good 7.62mm machinegun and plenty of ammo. I took a single survivor of a squad (tough day, that), and loaded him into the Bulldog. This is what I saw: Note that the Bulldog shows DISMOUNTED. I could NOT get that guy to fire the machinegun. I couldn't get him to fire his rifle, either. He just sat there, despite having LOS/LOF to a pair of enemy 30 meters to his front, in open ground. This is what it looked like: (note that the enemy "C2" icon and the friendly infantry icon are illuminated. The friendly infantry knows about and has LOS/LOF to the enemy pair." The obvious response would be, "Oh, the machinegun must be broken." Well, with the Bulldog showing DISMOUNTED, there's no way to access the maintenance tab. The machinegun was fine before the driver ran away. I'm glad I was able to get him into the Bulldog... But why wouldn't he use a weapon? Even if the machinegun was broken, he then should've defaulted to his rifle. Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 c3k: I imagine it is one of those code quirks. Once the state of the vehicle is checked and found to be "dismounted", it doesn't bother looking at whether it has any targets etc. to shoot at; it is just assumed that the whole vehicle is out of action. So the fact that you can put a guy in there who mans the gun doesn't make any difference in code to the vehicle's behaviour. Of course, the guy can't man the vehicle and make its state not "dismounted" since he isn't the crew for that vehicle. I'll be if you managed to get the driver back in there, the gun would be fired just fine by the passanger. It's one of those cases where you have to think how the code sees the situation, rather than what reality is like. The idea of a "dismounted" (i.e. unused) vehicle that none the less has the gun manned and able to fire is the kind of thing that falls through the cracks very easily. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 Exactly, a code issue. Well, "issue" may be putting it a bit strongly. It's great that this game puts the first non-driver/non-crew up on the gun. Seriously. But it would be BETTER if you then gained vehicle status information to include the ability to shoot the gun. None of this is game breaking; I post it purely to bring these minor observations more notice so if BF.C has time, they can work them into the next patch. (If they're deemed even being needed to be fixed.) Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVulture Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Exactly, a code issue. Well, "issue" may be putting it a bit strongly. It's great that this game puts the first non-driver/non-crew up on the gun. Seriously. But it would be BETTER if you then gained vehicle status information to include the ability to shoot the gun. None of this is game breaking; I post it purely to bring these minor observations more notice so if BF.C has time, they can work them into the next patch. (If they're deemed even being needed to be fixed.) Ken My personal wish for a bit of code tweaking is to stop the dratted warriors turning their entire body to face their cover arc, thus exposing their under-armoured front armour rather than their considerably tougher side armour. For most vehicles that is sensible behaviour, but for the warrior I'd like it so stay facing the way it was moving, so I can angle it how I like for maximum security. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Each "seat" in each vehicle is coded to allow, or disallow, certain behavior. That's so you can't do things like take a dismount and stick him in the driver's seat of an Abrams or the gunner's position in a Bradley. Generally speaking the Commander's seats on passenger type vehicles are left open for anybody to fill. But the gunner's positions are generally not, unless they are a simple MG. It's probable that is all that's wrong with the WMIK. I'll mention the Bulldog issue, though it's kinda hard to imagine that comes up very often But I'll mention it to Charles that situation is possible. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I wonder how the T-35 with its five turrets and 11 crewmen will be handled in the eventual Barbarossa game? And don't say that it'll be excluded, that would equal to stabbing my heart! (Not really, T-28 is what my heart purrs for.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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