On Being poisoned - Fructose/CornSyrup

[dieseltaylor]

Admittedly a heavy off topic and at 90 minutes rather a long University lecture. However as it deals with health and gives the science behind sugar/obesity/diabetes and heart disease it is well worth watching. I cannot recommend it enough as it uses meta-analysis to provide verifiable proof of its theme that fructose etc. creates the bad fat and more.

A brief overview would be that the obesity epidemic of the last 30 years in countries adopting the American diet is remarkably consistent with cheap sugar being used in processed foods and the removal of fibre to prolong foods storage life.

Over the last 100 years sugar intake has increased tenfold - and most of the increase is post-war. The liver can only process so much per day and when there is a glut excess sugar causes problems for the body. A large 44 fl oz. size soda daily is worth 123lbs in a year on your weight. However that is to suggest that weight is the problem - however it is only a visible sign and the real damage is actually internal.

Being for science grads they tend to use graphs, proofs, and supporting evidence. All in all a very very persuasive piece - with not an alien or foil hat in sight.

Please do take the time to read.

[tooz]

Great link! Lengthy, informative and disturbing.

Glad I switched to drinking tea without sugar.

[Tero]

Actually, sugar alone is not that bad. Combine it with excessive salt (from processed foods) and fats (trans and the regular kind) you get the combo which is the root cause of most of the modern problems.

[hcrof]

Very good lecture. I don't have a biochemistry degree so couldn't verify the technical bits but I have lived by the principles he promotes he makes a lot of sense.

Soft drinks should be taxed because they are pointless and unhealthy, especially when they are sold cheaper than bottled water.

[dieseltaylor]

Tero - from your comment I get the feeling you have not watched the video. Sugars can be that bad. And sugar makes fat ..... but please watch the movie.

[Tero]

Tero - from your comment I get the feeling you have not watched the video. Sugars can be that bad. And sugar makes fat ..... but please watch the movie.

Watched it. The lecture points out quite proficiently that ADDED FRUCTOSE in processed foods without fibers to go with it is bad for you.

I still maintain that SUGAR alone is not bad for you. I was taken aback by the fact about how much salt is in a soda.

[JonS]

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4157#

on the other hand

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090826110118.htm

[Patrocles]

Admittedly a heavy off topic and at 90 minutes rather a long University lecture. However as it deals with health and gives the science behind sugar/obesity/diabetes and heart disease it is well worth watching. I cannot recommend it enough as it uses meta-analysis to provide verifiable proof of its theme that fructose etc. creates the bad fat and more.

A brief overview would be that the obesity epidemic of the last 30 years in countries adopting the American diet is remarkably consistent with cheap sugar being used in processed foods and the removal of fibre to prolong foods storage life.

Over the last 100 years sugar intake has increased tenfold - and most of the increase is post-war. The liver can only process so much per day and when there is a glut excess sugar causes problems for the body. A large 44 fl oz. size soda daily is worth 123lbs in a year on your weight. However that is to suggest that weight is the problem - however it is only a visible sign and the real damage is actually internal.

Being for science grads they tend to use graphs, proofs, and supporting evidence. All in all a very very persuasive piece - with not an alien or foil hat in sight.

Please do take the time to read.

thanks for the link!

very cool! I will have to pass this on to my labmates. I work in a diabetes research lab - my boss studies Beta-cell (insulin producing cells) replication/survival at the molecular level so we rarely look at the "big picture" as it relates to human health issues.

[Affentitten]

Well as an antidote to all this excessive shovelling of calories into pie holes why don't we make smoking compulsory? It certainly cuts your weight because instead of having that donut, you just light up a calorie free ciggy.

[costard]

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4157#

on the other hand

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090826110118.htm

Nice one Jon. The sciencedaily link doesn't specify the degree of heat required to get the formation of the nasties, nor does it say whether these are a byproduct of the processing required to get the HFCS in the first place (my suspicion - a bleach, preservative or catalyst left over as a "harmless" additive, expensive to eradicate from the end product.)

[costard]

Well as an antidote to all this excessive shovelling of calories into pie holes why don't we make smoking compulsory? It certainly cuts your weight because instead of having that donut, you just light up a calorie free ciggy.

Ooh, ooh - and the raised heart rate from the nicotine means that the calories from the donut are burned quicker, so you can do both. Tobacco is your friend.

[JonS]

... The sciencedaily link doesn't specify the degree of heat required to get the formation of the nasties, ...

From the link:

When exposed to warm temperatures, HFCS can form HMF and kill honeybees. ... The scientists measured levels of HMF in HFCS products from different manufacturers over a period of 35 days at different temperatures. As temperatures rose, levels of HMF increased steadily. Levels jumped dramatically at about 120 degrees Fahrenheit (49°C) ...

But, yes. The article is light on detail - it doesn't, for example, say what the levels are, if the levels are harmful, etc. I would expect the full journal article goes into those details more.

In related news, this!

[costard]

JonS, I guess I could read a little more carefully... if I weren't such a nuffnuff.

[Tero]

By Affentitten

Well as an antidote to all this excessive shovelling of calories into pie holes why don't we make smoking compulsory?

It is not the calories that are bad. It is the "hidden" additives which do the most damage.

Ie. it is always the one you can not see that gets you.

[Affentitten]

I guess, though how 'hidden' are they? I would have thought that someone eating a decent diet of fresh fruit and vegetables, lean meat and generally unprocessed food would be avoiding a lot of this corn starch ****. If you're gorging yourself on Krispy Kreme, Pringles and Wonder Bread hot dogs, I don't think you can say that you were duped.

[dieseltaylor]

If you're gorging yourself on Krispy Kreme, Pringles and Wonder Bread hot dogs, I don't think you can say that you were duped.

And for those babies and foetuses accutomised to high sweetness levels it will be a trivial task to adjust.

I have not had an opportunity to check back the oppositions side as we have friends staying but it will be interesting to see how the Skeptoid stands up.

[dieseltaylor]

Snuck in to add a transcript of Lustig from 2007

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1969924.htm

Allows more consideration of the claims but lacks the graphs.

Norman Swan: Well given that you're not going to come to harm by reducing the fructose in your diet -- somebody who's listening to this -- what's the ingredient on the packet, or the jar, or the back of the tin that tells you there's fructose in there because it won't always say fructose will it?

Robert Lustig: Well high fructose corn syrup, it should say that, now in Australia for instance the sodas don't have high fructose corn syrup they have sucrose. Well sucrose is half fructose. You know a lot has been made over this high fructose corn syrup being particularly evil. In fact high fructose corn syrup is either 42% or 55% fructose, the rest is glucose. Well sucrose is 50% fructose the rest is glucose. In fact high fructose corn syrup and sucrose are equally problematic.

Norman Swan: Basically table sugar.

Robert Lustig: Table sugar -- that's right. We were not designed to eat all of this sugar, we're supposed to be eating our carbohydrate, particularly our fructose, with high fibre. Well the fact is we have 100 pound bags of sugar that go into the cakes, and the donuts.

Norman Swan: So we don't need to get obsessed on fruit sugars, it's sugar itself, sucrose.

Robert Lustig: Absolutely, it's sugar in general. So people say oh does that mean I can't eat fruit? No, let's take an orange -- an orange has 20 calories, 10 of which are fructose and has high fibre. A glass of orange juice has 120 calories, it takes 6 oranges to make that glass of orange juice and there's no fibre. You tell me which is better for you, so by all means eat the fruit, just don't drink the juice. Juice is part of the problem and there's plenty of data, not just mine. Miles Faith had an article in Pediatrics, December 2006 showing that in toddlers, in inner city Harlem in New York, in toddlers the number of juice servings correlated with the degree of BMI increase.

and so you can compare sciences

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose

SO the upshot would seem to be that overall sugar is being taken in excess but fructose is worse than sucrose in any event.

[Blackhorse]

ABSTRACT

This review explores whether fructose consumption might be a contributing factor to the development of obesity and the accompanying metabolic abnormalities observed in the insulin resistance syndrome. The per capita disappearance data for fructose from the combined consumption of sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup have increased by 26%, from 64 g/d in 1970 to 81 g/d in 1997. Both plasma insulin and leptin act in the central nervous system in the long-term regulation of energy homeostasis. Because fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion from pancreatic ß cells, the consumption of foods and beverages containing fructose produces smaller postprandial insulin excursions than does consumption of glucose-containing carbohydrate. Because leptin production is regulated by insulin responses to meals, fructose consumption also reduces circulating leptin concentrations. The combined effects of lowered circulating leptin and insulin in individuals who consume diets that are high in dietary fructose could therefore increase the likelihood of weight gain and its associated metabolic sequelae. In addition, fructose, compared with glucose, is preferentially metabolized to lipid in the liver. Fructose consumption induces insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, hyperinsulinemia, hypertriacylglycerolemia, and hypertension in animal models. The data in humans are less clear. Although there are existing data on the metabolic and endocrine effects of dietary fructose that suggest that increased consumption of fructose may be detrimental in terms of body weight and adiposity and the metabolic indexes associated with the insulin resistance syndrome, much more research is needed to fully understand the metabolic effect of dietary fructose in humans.

Full Report here: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/5/911

Great thread! HFCS is friggin everywhere these days (Can anyone tell me why it's in things like English Muffins?). I look at ingredients nowadays and try as much as possible to avoid it.

In addition to the corn impact on the environment, the health challenges are significant Regular table sugar is 50 percent glucose and 50 percent fructose, while -- as its name implies -- HFCS is 55 percent fructose and 45 percent glucose. The 5% modification has chemical and hormonal impact on the body. Why is a simple 5% so critical?

For starters, fructose doesn't stimulate insulin secretion or the increase in leptin (the hormone that makes you feel full). While glucose is transported into the brain, affecting brain signals that control or limit appetite, fructose is not. Additionally, fructose doesn't reduce ghrelin, a stomach hormone that stimulates appetite. Simply put, fructose doesn't send the same "full" signals to the brain. It is a medical fact that the body can survive with an intravenous drip of glucose. However, were the glucose replaced with fructose, the patient would be at risk for a fatty liver.

Fructose is the source the chemical building blocks of cholesterol and triglyceride production. so it is not digested, absorbed, or metabolized in the same way as glucose. Instead, it goes right to the cells without the help of insulin and moves right into fat production. Therefore it spikes the triglycerides but lowers the HDL ("good") cholesterol. It also increases levels of small, dense LDL (called LDL- cholesterol, which is much more dangerous than regular LDL ("bad") cholesterol.

The science is clear: Fructose consumption is associated with insulin resistance, increased calorie intake, impaired metabolism, weight gain, high cholesterol, and high blood pressure.

from: http://www.examiner.com/x-19969-Cleveland-Green-Parenting-Examiner~y2009m8d28-HFCS

[Tero]

If you're gorging yourself on Krispy Kreme, Pringles and Wonder Bread hot dogs, I don't think you can say that you were duped.

There is evidence that tobacco companies add(ed ?) substances which induce addiction. What are the odds the food industry does NOT use similar methods to boost sales ?

And the fact that the liver processes fructose the same way it processes alcohol is not too widely known or publicised.

[Other Means]

Excellent, thanks dieseltaylor.

[Wicky]

Heroin in Whiskas

There's heroin in Whiskas

I'm reasonably sure

The cat's getting desperate

Pacing the floor

He hangs round the food cupboard

Waiting to score

Wild-eyed and reckless

Quick on the claw

He's sharing a needle

The cat from next door

Comes round at mealtimes

And ties-off his paw

They shoot up together

And beg me for more

Who should I turn to?

The vet or the law?

There's heroin in Whiskas

I don't think it's crack

He said he could handle it

Lying on his back

But last night the chemists

Came under attack

The only things missing

Were chocolate and smack

And some halibut oil

From the vitamin rack

He won't have the dried stuff

Which comes in a pack

If it ain't got the tincture

He reckons it's cack

There's heroin in Whiskas

And reasonably pure

He completely refuses

To go for a cure

He just lies around

Till it's time for his feed

But what makes it worse

Is the dog's taking speed.

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.wilkinson46/heroin.html

There is evidence that tobacco companies add(ed ?) substances which induce addiction. What are the odds the food industry does NOT use similar methods to boost sales ?

And the fact that the liver processes fructose the same way it processes alcohol is not too widely known or publicised.

[dieseltaylor]

Great poem. I have suspicions about Whiskas for the last 20 years and my cats never get near the stuff.

On my own health I have never drunk soda/pops as I do not like the taste. And having had some nasty reactions after drinking pure juice a decade or so ago I very rarely have it and if so only in small amounts whilst eating something substantial to mop it up in the stomach. So apparently by chance I have avoided two of the problem areas.

[Stalins Organ]

I lost 5 kilos in a month when I stopped drinking commercial fruit juices with no othe changes to diet or (lack of) exercise - doesn't matter where the sugar comes from, we just get too much of it.

[Other Means]

Fruit juice as in cordial, as in mixed with water, or "pure" Orange juice, as in comes ready to drink?

[Stalins Organ]

As in 3 litre containers of "ready to drink" labelled "Fruit Juice" - often with an "apple base", and various brands & flavours.

Over here Fruit Juice" means it has to be 100% fruit juice - although it can be "reconstituted" from "concentrate" that is usually imported.

There are also "fruit drinks" which have to have at least 5% content of fruit juice (I think) but are otherwise sugar, water & flavourings, and "cordial" is generally something that lacks any actual fruit content at all and can come ready to drink, concentrated or dried.

So I was being virtuous and drinking only the fruit juice.

But it's usually 10-15% sugar by weight (grams per 100ml serve on the labels), so a 300 ml glass can have 30-45 grams of sugar - 1-1.5 oz's, or 6-9 teaspoons. Have 2-3 of those a day and your sugar intake skyrockets!