Question on vehicle "knock-outs"

[Alan8325]

In the case of my own vehicles getting knocked out, I've looked at the damage panel after seeing a vehicle get hit and noticed that every component has at least a light-green cross status and no crew casualties, but then the circle under the vehicle turns red and the crew bails out. How does the vehicle damage system determine knock-outs then? It isn't based on too many components damaged or crew members taken out, right?

Also, it seems that too much small-arms ammo is sometimes spent destroying dismounted technicals, especially those at a distance. I've seen squads expend half their ammo on a distant dismounted technical. In the case of a pickup truck with a machine gun on the back, an immobilization (engine or wheels) seems like it should be considered a knock-out unless the gun itself has to be destroyed too. Perhaps lower the "threat" posed by vehicles known to be dismounted?

[MarkEzra]

You are describing an immediate Kill...Your vehicle was good but now destroyed. Your crew is either wounded, dead, or bailing...nobody is making a damage assessment. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the slight lag in identifying the vehicle as dead has more to do with our PC's then it does game code.

[MikeyD]

Actually, in all these years I've never seen official word on how/why/when a vehicle get's marked KO'd. A vehicle can get immobilized by not KO'd, it can have its guns and optics shot away but still not be KO'd, it can lose crew and be abandoned and still not be KO'd. Maybe being knocked-out is like pornography. Its difficult to describe exactly where the line gets crossed but you know it when you see it.

[Apocal]

Actually, in all these years I've never seen official word on how/why/when a vehicle get's marked KO'd. A vehicle can get immobilized by not KO'd, it can have its guns and optics shot away but still not be KO'd, it can lose crew and be abandoned and still not be KO'd. Maybe being knocked-out is like pornography. Its difficult to describe exactly where the line gets crossed but you know it when you see it.

Or because there is no slot in the damage panel for "Armor Integrity"? Would you stick around in a smoldering track with a hole through the front?

[theFightingSeabee]

A perfectly round smoking sabot hole with sunlight shining in? No, I think I might bail out too!

[Alan8325]

Depends on how much more danger it looks like I'm in if I go outside I guess. Also depends on how much more I think I can accomplish in my vehicle despite the hole, and maybe I took out whatever shot me. As long as there's no danger of chemical, biological or radiological contaminants coming through that hole and everything onboard still works, I might as well keep going!

But what about a shot-up pickup truck with all the tires flat and nobody inside? At what point do I stop shooting at it?

[Apocal]

Depends on how much more danger it looks like I'm in if I go outside I guess. Also depends on how much more I think I can accomplish in my vehicle despite the hole, and maybe I took out whatever shot me. As long as there's no danger of chemical, biological or radiological contaminants coming through that hole and everything onboard still works, I might as well keep going!

You're not going to accomplish much when the crew compartment is filled with smoke.

But what about a shot-up pickup truck with all the tires flat and nobody inside? At what point do I stop shooting at it?

[Alan8325]

You're not going to accomplish much when the crew compartment is filled with smoke.

Also sabots tend to demolish everything inside an armored vehicle once they come through the side anyway, but I was referring to the hypothetical IF I am ok and the equipment seems to be too.

Looks like fun!

Sounds like in the beginning they are using both the .50 and the M240.

[Battlefront.com]

Like soldiers, there are four different colors for vehicles:

Green = A-OK

Yellow = Light damage of some sort

Red = serious damage, enough so that the vehicle is probably abandoned

Red/Brown = total kill, no question about it

So if you see an abandoned vehicle with a Green, Yellow, or Red color it's possible that it can be recrewed. Depends on what is damaged. Generally speaking a Red colored vehicle is pretty much dead.

The decision to "knock out" a vehicle is somewhat abstracted. It's simply based on the type of hit, hit location, the energy that gets inside, and some randomness. There are probably a few thousand pieces of equipment on a tank. We directly simulate about a dozen or two very high profile ones, but don't explicitly simulate things like bearings, tie rods, radiators, etc. Lose functionality of a critical, but not necessarily high profile, bit and that could be it. I had a head gasket blow on me one time... let me tell you that stops a rid pretty quickly

Included in this is an abstract judgement of the crew as to whether the tank is truly knocked out. This is actually a fairly fuzzy concept in real life, as has been discussed here. We've read many accounts of tanks that were "knocked out" but the repair crews found only moderate damage. This might mean the crew panicked and bailed (which we also simulate) but sometimes they just think that the tank is pretty shot up when, maybe if they stuck around for a while and tinkered with stuff, they'd find out it's not really so bad. But in a battle you don't always have that luxury. Like said above, if you suddenly have a new window put into the side of your tank you might think it's time to get out That could also be because the thought is that the next round is going to be coming in faster than it can be avoided by maneuver. So getting out is maybe the best course of action.

Usually a knock-out goes hand in hand with damage to crew or the specific systems we simulate, but it's not required to.

Steve