silly question about CM:"Normandy"

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, water is one of those things that causes numerous problems for existing stuff. But coding the units to understand what they can/can't do with water is just busy work. The more difficult thing is that the file format for CM:SF has no place for water. No place was left because water hasn't been designed yet, which means until it is Charles can't know what the file format needs to look like. Likewise, coding the TacAI and Op/StratAI to understand water is a big undertaking. It most likely means a significant divergence from the AI currently in CM:SF because it affects a lot of low level decision making areas. Having the AI work with the old stuff isn't possible to do until all the other work is done. And any other new AI needs would also have to be supported, else the AI would crash and burn (likely literally, as in crashing the game).

Which is the issue here. Going forward all of these things move along quite nicely since anything new is based on everything old. Where things aren't applicable they can be proactively commented out or otherwise worked around. Going backwards, however, presents a problem because at some point it's so much work to get everything backwards that what you're really doing is brining the old data forward. You lose file compatibility for sure that way, but it's more about the workload on our part.

Having said that, there are things which are isolated enough that backwards compatibility isn't an issue. Just look at the kinds of things in all of the CM:SF patches from the time v1.01 was released. Major changes with each patch, in fact. Small breaks can be hacked around, however over time they become rather ugly. Only a few times do I remember Charles saying "we can't do that because it would break the file format too much".

Steve

[SlapHappy]

And a counter-example: suppose "peeking around corners" is implemented in CM:Normandy. This should be transferable to CM:SF almost immediately, because every soldier can do it, right? No new variables for this one are necessary, just a different LOS algorithm.

Best regards,

Thomm

I'd love to see the "corner peek" capability in the game as well, but from the last 1 1/2 years of playing the game and gaining a better understanding of how the "action spot" concept works, is it really possible? How difficult is it to get soldier entities in squads to perform complex positioning within one action spot? How does the soldier know where the corner of the building is in relationship to the entire 8 x 8 meter action spot? I know from previous posts that LOS has a finer resolution than the action spot itself, so I guess it is possible IN THEORY.

[SlapHappy]

Upon a second consideration of my previous post, it dawned on me that soldiers know where the doors are located on buildings and they also know where low walls are when the "hurdle" animation is triggered, so there must be some logic code that allows them to recognize these highly variable map spots.

[Thomm]

SlapHappy,

There are action spots which have the corner of a building right in their center. Nevertheless, the soldiers line up nicely next to the edge of the building corner. They know what to do in this case, so I guess it is more a question of tweaking the LOS algorithm.

Best regards,

Thomm

[General_solomon]

Steve:

thank you my friend for give us all the great news that this game will be out in 09. I tend to keep searching for the ultimate war game and find myself keep coming back to cmx2 games.

The other night i played a little close combat and I kept thinking how awesome it would be to see the same map in 3d and that i could easily create the map on the editor.

speaking of the editor, there is nothing like it. I challenge anyone to find a war simulator that is similar to cmx2 engine and it comes with a free copy of a map editor that you dont have to be a programmer to use.

so now i wait with great anticipation for the ww2 title. In the meantime i will keep myself busy with shockforce and imagine all the user maps that i will have available when the world two title comes out.

keep up the good work and please hurry on Normandy.

gen. solomon

[Migo441]

The expectation of an '09 release is welcome news indeed. The phenomenon whereby time appears to accelerate as one ages can be alarming but, in cases like these, it's quite helpful.

I can well remember the INTERMINABLE wait for the original Close Combat or Steel Panthers to be released. But I was younger then with less to worry about.

I'm 37 now with three kids so, in gaming release terms, '09 is just about the same thing as immediately. In this narrow sense, I pity the younger gamers whom will seem to have to wait longer for CMx2.

And who knows, maybe some of our senior gamers are already playing it! (Or think they are.)

:-P

[Boris Balaban]

The expectation of an '09 release is welcome news indeed. The phenomenon whereby time appears to accelerate as one ages can be alarming but, in cases like these, it's quite helpful.

I can well remember the INTERMINABLE wait for the original Close Combat or Steel Panthers to be released. But I was younger then with less to worry about.

I'm 37 now with three kids so, in gaming release terms, '09 is just about the same thing as immediately. In this narrow sense, I pity the younger gamers whom will seem to have to wait longer for CMx2.

And who knows, maybe some of our senior gamers are already playing it! (Or think they are.)

:-P

I remember the days when Squad Leader (a board game) came out :eek:

[Gromit]

The expectation of an '09 release is welcome news indeed. The phenomenon whereby time appears to accelerate as one ages can be alarming but, in cases like these, it's quite helpful.

I can well remember the INTERMINABLE wait for the original Close Combat or Steel Panthers to be released. But I was younger then with less to worry about.

I'm 37 now with three kids so, in gaming release terms, '09 is just about the same thing as immediately. In this narrow sense, I pity the younger gamers whom will seem to have to wait longer for CMx2.

And who knows, maybe some of our senior gamers are already playing it! (Or think they are.)

:-P

How did you guess? These are the kind of games I have been dreaming up in my noggin for the last oh... 34 years, give or take.

Just like Steve and Charles (although how Charles manages to communicate effectively with his brain in a jar still eludes me...) but they decided to take the next step.

[Roter Stern]

Also, 2010 is not a release timeframe for CM: Normandy. And before you wisearses say 2011 , I'll say it is definitely going to happen in 2009. Probably a few months later than we wanted, but then again everything is always later than we want. But that's normal since we're a software developer after all.

Call me weird, but the very first thing I did when I read that post back in end-March 2009 was to set a reminder in my calendar for end-March 2010 to revisit this thread.

So yeah… here we are - 2Q 2010. I figured that by now you would’ve learned not to say things like that, Steve

Thank goodness you didn’t also promise the NATO module to be out “well before Normandy”

[Battlefront.com]

The Louch,

So yeah… here we are - 2Q 2010. I figured that by now you would’ve learned not to say things like that, Steve

You'd think so! You'd also think by now people would have learned to stop asking

The truth is that 2009 was our release timeframe at the time that I wrote that. At the time confidence was high that we could do it, but we didn't. That's pretty much normal for us, unfortunately.

Steve

[Chops]

Yes, water is one of those things that causes numerous problems for existing stuff. But coding the units to understand what they can/can't do with water is just busy work. The more difficult thing is that the file format for CM:SF has no place for water. No place was left because water hasn't been designed yet, which means until it is Charles can't know what the file format needs to look like. Likewise, coding the TacAI and Op/StratAI to understand water is a big undertaking. It most likely means a significant divergence from the AI currently in CM:SF because it affects a lot of low level decision making areas. Having the AI work with the old stuff isn't possible to do until all the other work is done. And any other new AI needs would also have to be supported, else the AI would crash and burn (likely literally, as in crashing the game)".

Steve

Well, since you mentioned Water, that brings up a couple of interesting questions: What will water look like in CM:N? What sort of characteristics will the water have regarding troop and vehicle movement? How deep will the water be? What will it feel like?

I guess I have a thing about water. I was born under the sign of water, I live near the water, I like being in the water, and I like walking next to it every morning...so please forgive my excessive interest in the subject.

I know you are a busy guy, so maybe the next update could be all about - Water.

[Gromit]

Well, since you mentioned Water, that brings up a couple of interesting questions: What will water look like in CM:N? What sort of characteristics will the water have regarding troop and vehicle movement? How deep will the water be? What will it feel like?

I guess I have a thing about water. I was born under the sign of water, I live near the water, I like being in the water, and I like walking next to it every morning...so please forgive my excessive interest in the subject.

I know you are a busy guy, so maybe the next update could be all about - Water.

Meh, Chops- I think you're all wet.