c3k Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Gents, I just noticed this; I hear the tearing sound of artillery rounds overhead. Cool effect. Then I see the impact. Then there is silence. The length of silence is dependent on the distance of the impact. Then I hear the impact. There should not be any silence between the in-flight sound and the impact, should there? If I can hear the in-flight sound for the duration of the shell's travel time, it ends with the impact, so the in-flight sound should segue directly into the impact. Or, the in-flight sound should be LESS than the length of time the shell travels; it should only be audible for a brief period based on distance/delay from the shell's visible path marker. Anyone else notice this? Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Good point - I had thought there was something odd about the flight noise of shells but couldn't quite put my finger on it. Should be pretty easy to fix too! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Gents, I just noticed this; I hear the tearing sound of artillery rounds overhead. Cool effect. Then I see the impact. Then there is silence. The length of silence is dependent on the distance of the impact. Then I hear the impact. Thanks, Ken That's the way it should be no? That's the way the process works in RL from what I have seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 No. The "whistling" of the shell should continue to the time of impact PLUS the time the sound needs to travel to the observer. Theoretically. Whether the whistling sound is audible well until impact in reality I do not know. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I guess it'd depend on if the shell flew over your head or not, which is probably why it's done how it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Yeah, the location of the observer to the shell track would be a variable. However, the audible shell track would then change pitch (doppler effect), with volume attenuation due to range. Neither of these characteristics seem to be present. Regardless of my location, I hear the shell's flight at the same volume, same pitch. Then silence... Then the impact. I understand the gap is present due to the simulation of the speed of sound. The disconnect is that there is no simulation of the speed of sound for the shell's flight. Minor? Absolutely. Am I suggesting a new module, "Combat Mission: The Sound of Battle"? Not hardly! I do not know if there is an EASY solution to this minor aberration, or not. If any solution is too hard, or would bump off, say, proper animation for bolt action rifles, then no worries. It is minor. However, if it can be easily fixed, and won't bump anything off the schedule, then so much the better. (Now, if the sound of the shell is being simulated based on viewer location at the moment the shell enters the game, then it STILL is off. Is that what you were getting at? If so, I would throw in what I said above: pitch modulation, volume attenuation. Start soft, build up, lengthen the pitch if it's going past you, soften till it cannot be heard, delay..... BOOOM! It'd be cool if you could judge impact based on sound.) Regards, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Totally dependent on the relative locations of the source of the projectile and the listener. In CMSF, the same sound is used if you are at the point of impact, 500m back with the shell travelling over you or 500m back with the shell travelling toward you (i.e. the target is between you and the point of origin of the shell). The sound originates at the impact point and dimishes as you move any direction away from the impact point, even vertically along the shell's flight path. The projectile itself has no sound and point of origin of the projectile has no effect. Similar problem with aircraft firing noises. While these sounds seem to have a distance and point of origin (or at least a bearing of origin), speed of sound does not apply. They are instantly heard no matter where your camera is located on the map. They are also not continuous sources and have no real "time" in the game. You can see this by pausing the game as you first hear an aircraft cannon start firing. The sounds will continue to play while the game is paused. (Same is true for incoming shell sounds.) Also interesting to note that the origin and distance of these sounds often does not mesh with the sound of the aircraft either (especially helicopters for some reason). You can artificially add delay to a sound, as I did for aircraft cannon with the first version of my sound mod, but its appropiateness will be highly dependent on the circumstances in game and thus very inconsistent. Personally I'd like to see 1. Speed of sound added to aircraft firing noises. 2. Off-map artillery have firing sounds with an actual point of origin in space (obviously off the map) and with speed of sound applied. 3. Artillery projectiles and passing aircraft exist as moving sound sources in the game (but the sound engine would have to be capable of appropiate doppler effects, and I don't know that it is). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Not to compare apples to oranges, but the discussion in this thread so far reminds me of certain aspects of sound FX design in Theatre of War. In that game (which, I should mention at the outset, does not account for the delay resultant from the distance between a sound's point of origin and the listener's location), the sounds of off-map artillery are modeled at least somewhat correctly in terms of what direction the guns/mortars are in relation to the map and how far away they are. (Part of scenario design in ToW is determining where one side's howitzer battery, for example, is in relation to the map, in terms of both direction and distance.) I've wondered if perhaps "Friendly Map Edge" (or whatever the actual term is) in the CMSF editor has a bearing on what direction the howitzer/mortar shells come from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMoria Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 No. The "whistling" of the shell should continue to the time of impact PLUS the time the sound needs to travel to the observer. Theoretically. Whether the whistling sound is audible well until impact in reality I do not know. Best regards, Thomm Well, as an forward observer for most of my military carrier and having rounds passing overhead on a frequent basis, the sound in game is for the most part accurate. Thomm hit on it - the sound of the round passing overhead is NOT audible until impact. It is only heard for a few seconds as it passes overhead then silence until impact + speed of sound to observer when you hear the detonation. The high arc of mortars and their lower relative muzzle velocity to tube artillery means you don't hear mortars passing overhead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Check out this video. Pretty good example of what your discussing here. Rod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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