stemar Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Just to know how many people could be interested in a CMSF meta campaign. I know that some people are already involved in designing some, but not in the same way, so i will be interested to know who made what at this moment and who will be interested in designing it or just play it. I made a "new" Syrian OrBat/TO&E and may be somebody will be interested in. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdp Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Well, I'm interested -playing as well as designing... I'm still working on my MC, tentatively called "Operation Nemesis" and work is moving along slowly. Scheduled release/start late Q2 2009. I'd like to have both the Brit and NATO modules included -and also the US IBCT TO&E. Here's a short sum up of the status; Operational rule set: 60% done (Insurgency rule set 30% done...) Tactical rule set: 60% done ORBAT: 35% done Tactical map archive: 118 premade maps (and growing...) Vassal module: 20% done (final decision on which Campaign tool to use still to be made...) Operational map: 60% done Operational unit icons - might use Cpl Steiners (with his kind permission) More news to come... And yes, I'd be very interested in your new Syrian OrBat/TO&E! Please send me a copy at sdp@molnhavet.se regards/ sdp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I am designing something but its not officially announced yet (although people who actually read my posts might have got what it is ) I would love that ORBAT! could you send it to hcrofton...gmail.com sdp - 118 premade maps :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 If anyone wants my unit counters I will gladly offer them up for this project, but bear in mind there may be some copyright issues. I based the counter layout on a download called Operation Iraqi Freedom from Lock 'n Load games but with silhuettes from Scipio's (I think) CM:SF unit icons mod. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemar Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 And why try to made something together. I know that we surely have different designing ideas, but it could be interesting to see what each one could bring to others. I played some MBX, and try to think at some rules. There is huge limitations for designing this kind of thing alone: Designing maps (there was an interesting tool with CMx1 that let you create huge map and generate only portion of it when need) For the ORBAT i can send it at who want it, i work on it this previous week and enhance the previous one i post on the site, and in a game purpose view i complete all Known intel with false one (designation numbers for example) Same for the TO&E where there are well known and unknown intel, but in most of the case even when you have good known intel it sometime very far from the Game TO&E. So i will be glad to send it to everyone need it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I had a quick look at making a meta and realised how much effort was invoved so all your efforts are appreciated. Have any of you guys given any thought to battlefield replacements? It interests me to know what happens in RL because books about units that have taken signifcant casualties stop at the end of the battle. I know tha in Gulf War 1 the UK sent units whose designation was 'Battlefield Replacements.' Clearly some squads and platoons were amalgamated in Faluja. I don't even know if battlefield replacements should figure much in a meta campaign? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdp Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Although I do have a lot ideas for a campaign I'd be no stranger to cooperating and to merge our ideas into one MC. Those interested in MC design might want to join this group I set up for the purpose; http://groups.google.com/group/cmsfmc - Vincere; battlefield replacements? Lets just say that in my opinion any kind of loss tracking and keeping track of unit elements are quite complex issues. CMSF has some inherent limitations when you chose/manage unit elements, as I'm sure we all know. On top of that you have to keep losstracking manageable for GMs and the commanders. But replacements should be doable, as I see it. In short; you will need to make far-going abstractions. But then again I don't think some operational abstractions will stop a meta-campaign from being fun... regards/ sdp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemar Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 got a lot of ideas too @vincere you point one of the limitation of the meta campaign : the level of complexity and the interface mechanics between tactical level (CMSF) and operational one. One of my idea here is to manage this at BN or even Coy level with a simple system like this one : Every unit has an exact number of men, all battle are not played to the end, but player stop one turn before, referee only launch the last turn to see the result (KIA/MIA/WIA) a quick look at the map and you will see roughly the result by unit (if there is mix coy or BN) and send the final result to the team. each team got a rooster for each unit (at BN or brig level) numbering men and material, it is at this level too that you manage experience moral fatigue etc etc. reinforcement and replacement are managed abstractly like logistical problem, with some preparation you can even think at a system with light and heavy wounded and some MIA return depending of the battle result. All you need is a rooster under excel for example where you enter some data like MIA KIA WIA, win lose or draw, if its red or blue (with medic) or insurgent, mobile battle or not etc etc... so you enter just MIA KIA WIA data and the rooster give you number of WIA return MIA return, POW etc etc fill the team rooster with this data and send it to the team or let it access it by a dedicated web site you can even generate some time before return in the same way than material and mechanical failures and so on the player for after battle report need, once his got his result, to fill and organize his men b by unit remaining men stay in a pool This kind of game need a lot of organization with strict document discipline format (orders, unit rooster) and you need to delegate as referee a lot to players and be confident in honesty of players the main concern is in fact the scope of the campaign, we can imagine play most of the war but not under CMSF, only well balanced scenario are played or critical battle, other engagement had to be manage with operational game rule. @sdp did you adapt an existing set of rule or did you create one ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdp Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 @stemar - some good ideas there. I totally agree that any MC, using any rule set, will have to deal with a fair amount of book keeping. About the rules; at the operational level I've studied and converted (simplified) those for "Gulf Strike", an operational boardgame at bn and div level. For the tactical level of the MC -i.e how to set up, play and extract results from a CMSF battle - I've had to put together some rules of my own. Of course, there have been MCs before that you can learn from - I've looked at CMMC for inspiration. regards/ sdp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, Sdp… “Tactical map archive: 118 premade maps (and growing...)” I almost fell off my chair… Great stuff…. CMMC type games are ultimate form of wargame… in my very prejudiced view…. I realize there are many here with experience of them… and I do not wish to interfere… look forward to following events.. but most such games struggle due to way more admin/ work for the umpires than was anticipated… You can never have too many umpires relative to players numbers… Good luck… sounds great…! All the best, Kip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemar Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 you absolutely right Kip Its my experience too, if you don't have enough umpire there is a moment where the few remaining will not be able to keep the game going at a reasonably "tempo" and some player will be demoralize to see how slow things advance and you will loose some player too. Its for what i ask first at how many people could be interested in, if we are few at trying something alone we will have a lot of unfinished try, it could be better to regroup everybody on the same goal Cpl Steiner work a lot on something that could be use at a strategical level, other works on some rule that could be use as "interface" between both strategical and tactical etc etc ... So a lot of "book keeping" and a lot of umpires and game designer or at least a pool of umpires, but also web and forum designer, map creator, scenario designer... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Here's a suggestion. Why not try to do something on a smaller scale to trial the idea. For instance, instead of the whole hypothetical invasion of Syria, just a few days covering a fictitious operation to secure an important objective. For example, you could have a map that is about 50km by 50km centred on Palmyra (Tadmur) and portray an operation by one or two coalition brigades to take the town from about 1 or 2 Syrian divisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemar Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yes you right, it could a good idea, in all case even if we want to simulate something bigger we need to really begin with something smaller It seems that some of us are already involved in designing something at the scale you propose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 In reading a couple of threads on the idea of a metacampaign, I'd like some clarification on what it actually is. From what I understand, it is a similar gameplay structure as in the Total War series of games (medieval, rome, empires etc.), where there is a strategic layer that allows you to move units across large distances to capture territory, then the game moves to a tactical layer to resolve individual battles. In this case, the CMSF battles that we play now would be the tactical layer and you are trying to add a strategic (or operational) layer? If so, this sounds like a great idea as it would add strategic meaning to each of the battle outcomes. Rather than just move on to the next battle or have to replay the previous one, there is a consequence that is right in front of me on the strategic map. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Alan, hi, A Meta campaign in CM terms is best defined as an operational layer in which battalion combat teams are moved over a map scaled at about 1: 50,000. With the contact battles between the battalion combat teams being resolved at the CM level. You can visualise it as small cardboard counters about 10mm by 10mm representing all the battalions in a division moved over a typical 1: 50,000 topographical map. Including units such as artillery battalions. The orders are issued by teams of players discussing matters in forums such this. With individuals taking certain rolls. Such as brigade commanders, divisional artillery commanders and such. These staff officers then issue orders to the “players”/battalion commanders who in turn write orders for their battalions and send them into the umpires. The umpires then move the battalions of both sides on their private maps and decide where battles would be fought given the orders issues by both sides. The umpires then build CM battles where required and send these to the players from both sides to fight it is out and send back their results. The umpires also track casualties and much else. I am wildly nerdish when it comes to military history and did not think it would interest me… but I was wrong… when it comes off it is by far the best way to play wargames. Due to the context in which the CM battles are fought… Great stuff…. but very time intensive for the umpires… All the best, Kip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemar Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 @sdp I subscribe to the google group... Seems that we are few to be interested in... Anybody else ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Stupid cuestion... What is a Meta Campaign? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It's the name of the campaign in Jagged Alliance 1 where you fought for the island of Metavira. (Not really, Kip gave the answer above.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdp Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 @stemar Welcome! Yes, I can see there's not so many joining...Yet. Just thought it might be a good idea to have a separate place for the design of MCs -a place where you find meta campaigns that are WIP - with discussions, facts, rulesets etc that might be useful. Anything concerning building/designing meta-campaigns for Combat Mission. When you finally have decided that a MC is "ready for release" it would have to have a site of its own I guess. regards/ sdp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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