GSX Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Played an interesting scenario last night (Just around the bend). It comes with 4 LAV TOW vehicles. After some interesting and dynamic mine avoidance I managed to get all 4 vehicles to go hull down behind a ridge which was higher up than the T-55s they faced about a mile away. To kill 2 x T-55 it took more then 15 missiles. Almost every one fired crashed into the ground at about the half way point. Any TOW operators out there? Is this a normal event with this weapon? Seems like a bug to be honest as in my experience precision weapons dont miss so often. Needless to say I thought it was a bug connected with being higher than the targets and perhaps hull down, the only trouble was that when I moved out to see I lost my vehicles one after another, had to try as they were the only long range AT I had. It spoiled the whole experience for me I have to admit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkey Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 orig version of this sceniario from Marines module contain bug with LAV TOW crew (missing TOW operator?). on cmmods is updated version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewSocialistMan Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 TOW's can be tricky. If the range is too tight, you don't really have enough time to properly acquire the target. If it is too far, it gives folks a chance to shoot at you. And gods help you if you're firing over water. The wires tend to short out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 In the game the combination of green gunner and strong cross winds can play havoc with TOWs, and pretty much any other AT missile in the game. I have not had your experience when a veteran soldier was at the controls - not counting the Russian AT-3 which is meant to simulate a 30+ year old crap 1st generation AT missile, no matter who fires it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogNative Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I appreciate your question but I can't answer with experience. That said "Just how bad is the TOW in Real Life"... I will not a volunteer. I suspect a close miss is a VERY bad day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 yes, I have a same problem in a PBEM. I haven't been able to hit his T55s with the TOWs and am glad to hear that it is a bug due to a missing TOW firer. If so, wow, interesting. This is a simulation of an inexperienced person firing TOW? I still can't believe that they would be that cackhanded... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmfan Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 My problem with the TOW systems in the game is that they're, at least for me, very difficult to use without loosing the vehicle employing them. I suppose I should have known from the start, but they're not very viable offensive weapons against armor. If you try to maneuver a Humvee, TOW vehicle or Bradley into firing position against a tank or even another APC you're more than likely going to loose that unit. Well, unless you're at extreme range (few maps give you this option) or are a master at finding hull down positions on the fly... which still don't seem WYSIWYG to me despite what others say I think you really just need to use them defensively. Sit tight and wait for the armor to fall into your missile sights. This is a one shot deal though. If, for some reason, your Bradly decides to let loose with its cannon before it fires the missile, or you have to move to get LOF then you're toast. I actually prefer using my mech platoon's Javelins over my Bradleys to engage enemy armor of any sort. TOW missiles end up coming in handier against buildings and bunkers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 In this scenario the TOW is the only anti armour you get. Tried it again last night with similar results so its got to be a bug. The crews are all Vet but it seems the combination of being higher up and partially hull down means that the TOWs crash into the ground before they get to the target tank most of the time. Very frustrating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 GSX, Is there any way you could send me a save of this problem? If so we can take a look at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 orig version of this sceniario from Marines module contain bug with LAV TOW crew (missing TOW operator?). on cmmods is updated version. I believe the corrected scen file was included in the first Marine module patch. You definitely need 4 crew members for the LAV-ATGM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkey Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 In this scenario the TOW is the only anti armour you get. Tried it again last night with similar results so its got to be a bug. The crews are all Vet but it seems the combination of being higher up and partially hull down means that the TOWs crash into the ground before they get to the target tank most of the time. Very frustrating.I played this scenario now, and LAV-ATGM without problem. Fired 4 TOWs and catch 3 T55 (only one TOW miss). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 There is a random factor built in to account for missile failure, broken wires, stuff like that. You could have just been REALLY unlucky. I have seen some strange things during testing but nothing that appears systematic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I believe Strykers with TOW was riddled with same issue earlier. About half of missiles went down. I threw some wild guesses that missile simulation just manages to hit it to ground mid-flight while going down to it's line of flight... If that is technically right term. However now they work and missiles flying arc is same as earlier (proves that i were wrong, again). Firing TOW across water is not defined no-go. it takes some calculations to estimate do wires manage to land in water before hitting target. Well that is out of question in CMSF. Hmm... CMSF has surpprised me with it's depth of simulating weaponsystems. Now i wonder might sun's position (in direction of target) affect to it. Question "Just how bad is the TOW in Real Life"... Well it's not as bad as AT-4 Spigot comming homesick mid-flight and wishing to return to tube from where it was fired. My experience with live TOWs is rather limited, there has been crashes during livefire exercises, but not very often. Probably with older stuff, which has become slightly "sour". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I believe the corrected scen file was included in the first Marine module patch. You definitely need 4 crew members for the LAV-ATGM. It is possible to leave out a crew member with the scenario editor??? How that? Anyway, I've played the the original TF Thunder campaign just a few weeks ago, there is this scenario with a couple of touch objectives and a large Syrian tank formation on counter attack. The Blue player has two TOW-Strykers available, and I have managed to whipe out nearly the whole Red force before I ran out of TOWs. IIRC, only two or three TOWs missed. So it doesn't seem to be a general TOW problem!? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 It is possible to leave out a crew member with the scenario editor??? How that? No. During the development, the TO&E's occasionally need to be changed. So if the TO&E for LAV ATGM in some very early version had one crew member less and a scenario's OOB was created with that early TOE, it remains that way for later versions unless the OOB is remade. Or something like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta228 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Iv'e had this sort of problem with almost evey ATGM at some point or another. Usually, they work fine, however, every once in a while, for no apparant reason the missile will simply slam into the ground a few hundred meters away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I second this. I've played the scenario through several times, and even if the TOW are on high ground, hull down, and waiting for the Syrian tanks, the TOWes generally miss. More than once I've had the TOWes engage, miss, have the Syrian wait awhile, eventually acquire the TOW, and then the tank polishes off the TOW. Range is about a kilometer to 1500 meters, which is pretty much ideal for a TOW engagement. I'll be durned if I can figure out what the deal is. Maybe it's karma compensation for the ueber-Javelins, which I have seen go over a roof to hit a tank behind a building... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I have had the Marine jeep mounted tows prove extremely effective in some cases. I mean like one jeep accounting for 5 or six T-62s effective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmeister Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Wasn't there some kind of adjustment to ATGMs in the 1.10 patch? Ever since I applied it I've had seen lot of Javelins and TOWs crashing into the ground. This has sometimes led to squads casing casualties and suppression on themselves with their own Javelin! I now have to be careful how I place ATGM armed squads and vehicles due to the menace they represent to nearby friendlies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmeister Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Wasn't there some kind of adjustment to ATGMs in the 1.10 patch? Ever since I applied it I've had seen lot of javelins and TOWs crashing into the ground. This has sometimes led to squads casing casualties and suppression on themselves with their own javelin! I now have to be careful how I place ATGM armed squads and vehicles due to the menace they represent to nearby friendlies. As a safety measure, I try to launch javelins from taller buildings instead of ground level, since this (hopefully) prevents the missile from crashing too close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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