Spotting teams don't see the same ?

[snake_eye]

I have found that a team of 2 guys on a rooftop had a perfect sight of a tank in POOH. Having nothing left but M16, I sent there a 2 men Javelin team. Close to the 2 other guys they were unable to spot the tank. I move the other team, they took their place and it did not help either, while the other team was always seeing that tank.

Are you taking in your parameters the fact that they might have been wearing glasses ?

More seriously why did it happen ?

Another troubling fact. Javelin being fired from inside a building at 200 m target blew up in flight before it. Went maybe in a tree ???? It happen in another game, it just hit the ground 100 m or so after lightly going up then down (this time being fire from the open )

[dan/california]

I have this problem repeatedly, some AI to get the rocket launcher where it needs to be would be greatly appreciated.

[snake_eye]

I have this problem repeatedly, some AI to get the rocket launcher where it needs to be would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the club. I am very much frustrated when a tank being in the best 200 m sight of a javelin team isn't shot at repeatedly, despite franctic moving of the team, close , near or at the place of the closer team (20 m range) seeing the target, but having not a single AT weapon.

At longer range the Javelin team usually is seeing the targets and firing correctly. Yet not always to the target you would prefer. If you only have one shot, that's too bad.

[Atago]

The one that gets to me is when the AT team sees an enemy tank while on hunt, goes prone and doesn't see it any more - then doesn't fire at it 'cause it can't see it. Peek a boo! Did the tank vanish because you can't see it any more?

I've had situations similar to that described here too - Unit on a rooftop spots enemy tank. I send a Javelin team up there and run them all over the roof and they can't seem to spot it. You'd think that they'd talk to the spotting team; "see it? It's right there behind that bush next to the 3 story building on that hill".

I understand that making CMSF even as good as it is was and remains a challenge - be nice to have some of the remaining "rough edges" smoothed though!

[Homo ferricus]

Peek a boo! Did the tank vanish because you can't see it any more?

Your men haven't yet developed object permanence either? Hmmm, you'd swear that the infantry backbone of the Marine Corps consists primarily of three-year-olds.

On a more serious note, i agree that in a real life instance, the spotters would communicate that kind of information to the AT guys, especially when they are in whispering range, but i think this is already modeled (i believe it is at least for things like radios, and FBCB2, yes? also perhaps PDAs and GPS systems are taken into account, a la Land Warrior?) and these occurrences might be something that were somehow not given the attention they need to make them function properly. Or potentially a compromise we're not seeing has been made.

[dan/california]

The compromise is not resulting in the exploding AFV I have in mind.

[Apocal]

Another troubling fact. Javelin being fired from inside a building at 200 m target blew up in flight before it. Went maybe in a tree ???? It happen in another game, it just hit the ground 100 m or so after lightly going up then down (this time being fire from the open )

Motor misfires, fuze malfs and duds (this I'm only 75% sure) are simulated. Watched an RPG fly right in the middle of a bunched up squad and do precisely dick. No explosion, no casualties, nothing.

I also believe I saw a jammed weapon, but I can't be entirely sure. It may have been something else (saw the word in my peripheral vision).

[snake_eye]

I also believe I saw a jammed weapon, but I can't be entirely sure. It may have been something else (saw the word in my peripheral vision).

I would swear it did happen to me once with an MG team. I have a blur remembrance of checking the ammo level and seeing the word "jammed". Maybe, I am confused with CM 1 to 3 play memories ?

As for the spotting matter, I would gladly, excuse Battlefront for not giving a good eyesight to the Javelin team, for all the good modeling and parameters that make the game for what it stand "near perfection" (from my point of view), but to give such an important "nature gift" to the AT4 teams, being able to fire from a concealed spot to a target hidden by trees and destroy it right away, that I have difficulties to admit.

You can only see (In Elite) a streak of a yellowish colour and that's the end of your huge M1 despites all the precaution you took not to expose it. More, there is no way to find precisely the whereabouts of the AT4(AT3......) and despite a reliatory pounding in the feasible area it comes back invariably undisturbed. A cat o'nine tails sort of things.

[SlowMotion]

The one that gets to me is when the AT team sees an enemy tank while on hunt, goes prone and doesn't see it any more - then doesn't fire at it 'cause it can't see it. Peek a boo! Did the tank vanish because you can't see it any more?

I've had situations similar to that described here too - Unit on a rooftop spots enemy tank. I send a Javelin team up there and run them all over the roof and they can't seem to spot it. You'd think that they'd talk to the spotting team; "see it? It's right there behind that bush next to the 3 story building on that hill".

In one scenario I had three remaining soldiers of a squad in an action spot where a trench line ended. In this spot they had good cover and could see an enemy vehicle. Because they had no AT weapons, I moved this squad away from that place and a 2 man AT team to this same place. BUT: these 2 men couldn't see the vehicle! I suppose when you put 2 guys to an action spot they are placed differently than 3 guys. They do not use all the available space for spotting and thus couldn't see the same thing.

2:

..X..X..

3:

.X..X.X. (<- the vehicle could be seen from the left most position only)

[stoex]

I also believe I saw a jammed weapon, but I can't be entirely sure. It may have been something else (saw the word in my peripheral vision).

I'm pretty sure that weapons do jam in CMSF, as I have repeatedly noticed my 40mm Stryker guns (sorry I never know the correct military terms for these things) "inexplicably" ceasing to execute their area fire for anything between 15-90 seconds (also happens when they are attacking spotted targets, but much more rarely because such engagements seldom last more than a few rounds), then resuming to shoot, even though their LOS was not interrupted.

I have found that whenever this happens, the 40mm gun is greyed out on their ammo panel in a darker shade of grey than the ammo they are carrying around for squads to refill from, for the duration of the fire interrupt. I can figure only two possibilities:

1) The weapon is jammed (and the poor gunner working hard to fix the problem )

2) The weapon has overheated from being fired to fast for too long (and the stupid, trigger-happy gunner is frying eggs on the barrel or something)

If the latter, it really should only be happening to very inexperienced crews, which is definitely not the case. Vets and cracks have the same problem. I believe paying attention to your ROF to minimze weapon malfunction is in fact something they teach US soldiers in boot camp, but I might be wrong as I am so often when my lack of military knowledge meets my common sense. There's a lesson there, but I can't quite put my finger on it

[snake_eye]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-27/Ch1.htm

this is a link for the 40mm grenade launcher MK19. It is designed not to overheat (it does not in fact -that's not an MG) and its current rate of fire should be between 40 to 60 rounds a minute. (It has however a cyclic rate around 360)

remember that it is a shock and awe weapon designed to deliver a brutal and devastating blow in a short laps of time. In CMSF it fire steadily a shot every second or a bit more (did not control exactly) with effectively some periods of inactivity, that could be noticed from time time, before resuming firing.

[stoex]

Thanks again for some RL insight, snake eye .

I do understand the bursts of fire, but remember I am talking about interrupts of over a minute here, far too long for "sustained area fire" as I would understand it, plus the greying out of the weapon in the ammo panel.

After perusal of the documentation, I have come up with another possible reason for the fire interrupt: Could it be the gunner is having to switch ammo belts? He has to have at least 2 different ones for HE and HEDP, and I don't know whether the 336 HEDP rounds are all in one belt or several...

Any thoughts? I still think it's just jamming, as other weapons don't seem to "grey out" during reload. Obviously more or less any weapon must have a certain chance of jamming, particularly in dusty desert terrain. And they do deprecate with each round fired, average weapon life for the MK19 is stated as being 50k rounds in the documentation you linked...

EDIT: what exactly is the cyclic ROF?

[stikkypixie]

I'm pretty sure that weapons do jam in CMSF, as I have repeatedly noticed my 40mm Stryker guns (sorry I never know the correct military terms for these things) "inexplicably" ceasing to execute their area fire for anything between 15-90 seconds (also happens when they are attacking spotted targets, but much more rarely because such engagements seldom last more than a few rounds), then resuming to shoot, even though their LOS was not interrupted.

I have found that whenever this happens, the 40mm gun is greyed out on their ammo panel in a darker shade of grey than the ammo they are carrying around for squads to refill from, for the duration of the fire interrupt. I can figure only two possibilities:

1) The weapon is jammed (and the poor gunner working hard to fix the problem )

2) The weapon has overheated from being fired to fast for too long (and the stupid, trigger-happy gunner is frying eggs on the barrel or something)

If the latter, it really should only be happening to very inexperienced crews, which is definitely not the case. Vets and cracks have the same problem. I believe paying attention to your ROF to minimze weapon malfunction is in fact something they teach US soldiers in boot camp, but I might be wrong as I am so often when my lack of military knowledge meets my common sense. There's a lesson there, but I can't quite put my finger on it

Are you sure they weren't just reloading?

[stoex]

check out my previous post in this thread stikkypixie. reloading was my last idea for the interruption...

OK, as far as I'm concerned this discussion is over, though, as I've only now taken the time to completely read the documentation snake eye provided. The gunner is obviously reloading as the ammo belts are 48 and 50 rounds long respectively. Works for me.

Sorry for being such a dud when all the answers were already given...it was late last night for me when you posted that doc, snake eye, and I really only looked at the pictures and read the bold type

[snake_eye]

Thanks again for some RL insight, snake eye .

EDIT: what exactly is the cyclic ROF?

The cyclic ROF -Rate of Fire - is the theorical ROF that the mechanical parts of the weapon could achieved in a period of time.

To be more precise your weapon is achieving a 360 rounds per minute against a target, against, lets say a 60 rounds per minute ROF.

That means that you are firing at a 600% rate faster than the 60 rds/minute.

That's possible mechanically, but you can't sustain that rate more than 60 rds at the most.

that makes burst of 6 rds per second and it means that you should not fire more than 10 seconds affilate.

As I said it is the theorical ROF and you better not do it more than few seconds - 2 to 3 seconds -(the weapon probably has a restraint) because, you would be exposed to mechanical failure of the disintegrating ammo belt links, breakage of the ammo belt and or jamming in the bolt eventually. Anyway the mechanical parts are stronger than the ammo belt. That why you take care of them (the belts), if you don't want to have problems at the worst time.

Have a nice day