Mines in v.1.11

[Peter Panzer]

There seems to be an ongoing lack of clarity as to how mines are dealt with in the game.

A few questions...

• Will engineers and/or M1132's be able to clear mines in v.1.11?
  
• Will units be able to spot mines prior to detonating them?

[purpheart23]

Let us pray Peter that they bring functionality to the engineer vehicles in the game. Amen. Yeah nothing like "finding" a mine field to bring sunshine and hope to your day eh?

[Peter Panzer]

I'll settle for functionality of engineer squads in regard to clearing mines. Alowing M1132's to "Mark Mines" would be a welcome bonus indeed.

It seems that nobody is really sure about how this aspect of the game is supposesd to work. Engineers can "Mark Mines" resulting in the mine marker graphic changing color but what does that signify? Mines can be "marked," yet infantry and AFV's still set them off after the fact regardless of their movement speed.

• Are mine fields supposed to be cleared when the marker graphic changes color?
  
• Is the lack of a gunner in the M1132 (ESV) intentional?

[missinginreality]

I was wondering about units being able to "spot" mines rather than blow up on them. But how's this work in RL? I mean, the enemy doesn't put a sign up for the other side saying "warning mines" does it? Surely unless one's moving very slowly on constant lookout then a mine would be very hard to "spot" accidentally?

I would envisage that this is why the game functions the way it does. Also that the "Mark Mines" is just that; marking them, not clearing them. How long does it take in RL to clear a path through a minefield I wonder? Hence units still get hit by mines after they've been marked if they move anything but SLOW.

Which ultimately brought me to the uselessness of going to the trouble of marking them in the first place even though the manual says one can move through the minefield slowly?

So I did a few tests and found that things work precisely as they "should".

Once a hapless unit has triggered a mine, engineer units can then mark that 1 single minefield [8m x 8m square] - other units can then cross that 8 x 8 square using SLOW quite safely. Use a QUICK across that square and more mines in that square will detonate.

Thus the engineers have Marked the single 8 x 8 minefield, made other units aware it is there and marked a small path through it for them to travel SLOWLY.

So I'm thinking this - when a player buys mines in the scenario editor they get 4 minefields 8m x 8m each field, and it may be safe to assume that they put these generally across one area. So even though the engineers have marked one of those 8 x 8 minefields there's still another 3 left somewhere, which is probably what people see when they move SLOWLY - they are moving into another DIFFERENT 8 x 8 minefield.

Which leads to maybe think that Engineer units should be allowed to have use of the MARK MINES into contigous squares to the minefield they have just marked. As in RL they'd probably search around the general area for more mines to mark maybe?

[ChrisND]

The slow/quick difference is the same even if the engineers did not mark the mines. Once someone stumbles on the mines, a red sign appears. The mines have then been essentially marked. The only thing that engineers do is change the color of the sign to yellow. In other words, completely superfluous and useless.

[M1A1TC]

Ive been asking BFC for better engineers since CMBO still nada. I guess its pretty low on their list, maybe not even on it

[missinginreality]

ND, I feel i have to disagree with you on that, from what I've noted in testing here this morning. Yes a SLOW does certainly reduce the possibility of getting hit on an unmarked minefield, however I have yet to have another mine trigger when using SLOW across a marked minefield. I've had units crawling all over an 8 x 8 marked minefield with no detonations and vehicles SLOW moving across it too. Try the same on an unmarked minefield square and the vehicle will often trgger a mine straight away whilst the units can take some minutes but will still trigger yes.However this has not yet happened after some minutes using SLOW over a marked minefield.

[ChrisND]

ND, I feel i have to disagree with you on that, from what I've noted in testing here this morning. Yes a SLOW does certainly reduce the possibility of getting hit on an unmarked minefield, however I have yet to have another mine trigger when using SLOW across a marked minefield. I've had units crawling all over an 8 x 8 marked minefield with no detonations and vehicles SLOW moving across it too. Try the same on an unmarked minefield square and the vehicle will often trgger a mine straight away whilst the units can take some minutes but will still trigger yes.However this has not yet happened after some minutes using SLOW over a marked minefield.

Interesting. Hopefully Battlefront can address this, and for certain more information needs to be in the manual.

[missinginreality]

Interesting. Hopefully Battlefront can address this, and for certain more information needs to be in the manual.

Totally ND; the Engineer unit could be really useful and mines are a great addition to the game and IMHO would be more so if the Engineers could have a "search" action maybe around neighbouring marked minefields rather than limiting their usefulness to marking the one mined square.

[Peter Panzer]

Missinginreality:

Thank you for shedding some light on this, it seems as if you are right.

If I understand correctly, "marking" mines reduces the chance one will be hit rather than eliminating the chance.

Should that be the intended case, it's a rather nice touch in that there is always the chance the engineers "missed one."

Also, I totally agree that a preventative "search" command would be great, but I doubt we see this in CMSF.

Does anybody know if the lack of a gunner in the M1132 is correct for a SBCT engineer squad?

[missinginreality]

Missinginreality:

If I understand correctly, "marking" mines reduces the chance one will be hit rather than eliminating the chance.

Should that be the intended case, it's a rather nice touch in that there is always the chance the engineers "missed one."

I think it's more that "marking mines" provides a way to SLOW across a minefield with no chance of detonating mines. Almost as if they have marked a careful route through. In tests I got zero detonations moving SLOW with personnel and vehicles across a marked minefield.

[Peter Panzer]

I have had AFV's go sky high moving slowly across a marked field.

This is what lead to my initial question. According to what I have observed, route finding in a mine field, marked or otherwise, is not an absolute proposition in CMSF.

Thanks again for sharing you experience. On a totally separate note, your new "subdued rings" mod is quite handy!

[Peter Panzer]

Is the lack of a gunner in the M1132 (ESV) intentional?

BFC/Beta Testers:

Please note, M1132's cannot use the RWS for targeted or area fire use, perhaps due to the issue above. It would be great if this could be tended to in v.1.11.

[missinginreality]

I have had AFV's go sky high moving slowly across a marked field.

This is what lead to my initial question. According to what I have observed, route finding in a mine field, marked or otherwise, is not an absolute proposition in CMSF.

Ah I see; well that's weird coz then maybe it does just reduce the chances of hitting a mine rather than negating it completely. Odd coz I had a stryker drive back and forth over a marked filed for a couple of mins and no detonation. Maybe I just got lucky with the probablilities. I think in all this what it's shown though is the whole minefield thing needs a bit of looking at from BF to make it more of an element in game.

On a totally separate note, your new "subdued rings" mod is quite handy!

Thanks PP.