Pirates + T-72s = Land Pirates?

[BigDork]

It would appear that not only do you have to worry about pirates in the waters off Somalia now but you'll have to worry about them on land as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/09/25/ukraine.ship.seized.ap/index.html

Makes me wonder why there wasn't any kind of armed... anything on board this ship. It's not like people don't know that Somali waters are a bad place to be.

[John Kettler]

BigDork,

Wonder where they were bound and whether a commercial competitor or intel types were involved in this? Either one or both would make sense. I agree, though, that going into that part of the world unarmed is pretty dumb.

Regards,

John Kettler

[mike_the_wino]

Spare parts are great....ammo would be better. As it sits right now, they have some really spendy and not so sporty rides.

[Michael Emrys]

I wonder if it isn't time we started sending a few Q-ships into those waters. A couple of beat up, rusty old tramps with some miniguns and 3" gun or two carefully concealed aboard and maybe just over the horizon something a bit bigger with a couple of attack helos aboard.

SURPRISE!

Michael

[xor+]

Man, we missed this year's Talk Like a Pirate Day. Now that it's almost becoming a job qualification. The forum's really going down the drain.

[Subvet]

According to the AP the ship had: "a substantial quantity of ammunition and spare parts"

[mike_the_wino]

Sweet, I hope they eBay those biatches.

[Abbott]

Sweet, I hope they eBay those biatches.

LOL LOL LOL!!!!! Best one of the day!

[Abbott]

I fecking knew it!

A new report out now says that they suspect John McCain going to Washington D.C was just a cover story. Earlier today an unnamed reliable source said “McCain was spotted in the Indian Ocean this morning wielding a buck knife and wearing flippers”. Nothing else was reported as the eyewitness source said “McCain disappeared underwater before we could get close enough to question him”. Bush senior and George W. were also spotted fishing nearby but after a cursory inspection looked innocent enough.

[John Kettler]

New developments in the story. The Ukrainian vessel was bound for Kenya, the name on the End User Certificate, when waylaid. The crew is mostly Ukrainian, but there are some Russians aboard, which may explain the sending of a Russian destroyer to intercept. Anyone up on the Law of the Sea in the event the Russians, who may well have Black Sea Marines or even naval Spetsnaz aboard, succeed in retaking the ship?

Who has ownership of the cargo if the Russians storm the cargo ship and retake her?

The listed cargo quantity, 33 tanks, is a full tank battalion, plus a couple of spares,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080927/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_somalia_piracy;_ylt=Aik2AKS8Z6wXu5N.8bhrRIFvaA8F

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

...a Russian destroyer to intercept. Anyone up on the Law of the Sea in the event the Russians, who may well have Black Sea Marines or even naval Spetsnaz aboard, succeed in retaking the ship?

I read that the Russian ship is coming from the Baltic, so it's going to take a while to arrive on the scene. Interception would be extremely unlikely unless the pirates decide to hang around and wait for it. They could probably steam into the nautical equivalent of a chop shop and reduce it to scrap before the Russkies show up, with the tanks safely dispersed and on their way to new buyers.

Michael

[mike_the_wino]

Excepty one lil detail....sat-o-light. Not sure what the coverage is like in that part of the world but I would imagine we have near 100% coverage. And a battalion of modern tanks (okay, almost modern) would tip the scales in favor of who ever gets them so keeping an eye on that ship would be worthwhile.

[Michael Emrys]

Well, of course the possibility exists that the pirates are imbeciles who couldn't hid a doorknob in a hardware store. In fact, the chances are pretty good, all in all. But on the off-chance that they or whomever they are taking orders from actually have their sh*t together, quickly unloading the ship and dispersing it's contents would make it hard to recover them.

Michael

[mike_the_wino]

But on the off-chance that they or whomever they are taking orders from actually have their sh*t together, quickly unloading the ship and dispersing it's contents would make it hard to recover them.

Michael

Well, it looks like these guys are run of the mill douche-bags. They have lowered the ransom to $5 mill, down from $35 mill, as there are no 'Mericans on board and they have no way to off load the tanks at sea.

linky

[Stalins Organ]

They could lift one up on a ship's crane, then let go into the cargo hold...that might enable them to offload the tanks all at once....

[Michael Emrys]

Well, I suppose that would keep them out of the hands of the enemy...

Michael

[Bigduke6]

There is now a US minesweeper sitting a couple of hundred meters from the cargo ship, and more warships are en route. This from wire service reports.

I think the pirates may regret grabbing this boat before it is all over. It's one thing to capture a garden-variety Third World freighter and hapless crew that no major naval nation cares about, but 30 tanks in that region are alot more important to the big countries than just the lives of some sailors. If the pirates don't back down I bet the NATO boys will try and grab the ship, if nothing else because there's a Russian warship also en route and Heaven forbid the Russian navy gets involved, that also from wire services.

[John Kettler]

Bigduke6,

Had no idea U.S. had a naval unit in the vicinity, let alone there! What are the international penalties these days for piracy on the high seas? As for the Russians, they've got a legitimate stake in this mess: three Russian sailors.

mike_the_wino,

Russians to do solo pirate abatement, eh? Pretty heady company: Pompey, Julius Caesar, U.S. suppression of the Barbary pirates ("shores of Tripoli"), etc. Suggest pirates encountering Russians surrender immediately--assuming surrender's even offered as an option! That is one of several such nests in need of a thorough cleansing. Understand Straits of Malacca are also infested.

Stalin's Organist,

A unique suggestion, but only if the ship turns turtle, emptying the cargo as a result.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bigduke6]

Well, now it's 20 sailors, as the captain just died of a heart attack. Apparently for real too, both the navy people and the pirates (who are talking to reporters too, it ain't the Spanish Main any more).

As to cleaning out the pirate "nests", well, it's a long hot coast and it is Somalia from the water's edge all the way to Ethiopia. So you can't just land there and cow the natives, we tried that and it didn't work so well, they're armed and they're pretty nasty.

According to latest reports now there is a Russian warship of some sort in the vicinity, and a second NATO-type ship. No idea on size but the pirates said they think there are more warships approaching.

The other interesting bit of information is that the pirates apparently reduced their ransom demand to 5 million dollars when they found out Ukraine not the US owned the tanks. If and when they get to Kenya, the T-72s become Kenyan army property apparently. So anyway, the pirates apparently have been counting and have figured out that it will cost well more than 5 million dollars to put together even a tiny military operation to take the ship back, never mind a proper one.

Of course, they may not have banked on the Russians, who these days aren't counting money when it comes to making a military point. So it should be fun pretty soon.

[John Kettler]

Bigduke6,

I was thinking in terms of dealing with the floating elements. Firmly. Also, there are doubtless shore facilities near and dear to the pirates. These should be carefully assessed for suitability for precision strike. Meanwhile the legal geniuses don't wish to put weapons on merchies and offer the pious hopes they'll be escorted. Rather like hoping horny teens won't have sex!

http://www.un.int/sweden/pages/eu/state_eu/stmay10.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[Stalins Organ]

What shore facilities do pirates need?

They're presumably happy to run ships up on beaches or rocks if required, and one hut looks much like another - how are you going to pick which house belongs to the pirates?

Or does your "precision strike" consist of levelling the nearest village and letting god sort them out??!!

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

The report said they use one particular port and are tying vessels to the wharf. If they're using cigarette boats or whatever they're called these days, then they need certain facilities to support them, and these are quite distinct from, say, Bunker C and big marine diesels. Personally, I'd issue warnings by radio and leaflet, after which it'd be open season on pirates. As the article I linked to noted, piracy jumped 52% from 1999 to 2005. The reason it jumped was pirates were allowed to operate with impunity, and others were inspired by their success, so became pirates, too. Such trends must be vigorously discouraged. You can be the Russians will!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Bigduke6]

The "floating elements" are most likely motor boats probably in the 5 meter range you can conceal in a garage, cove, or under bushes or trees. Cigarette boats are a big investment cocaine smugglers can afford but not East African gunmen. The "shore facilities" are men moving by 4WD or camel carrying Jerry cans of diesel, a guy who knows how to fix the Chinese outboard motor or radio, and of course the pirates who off the water are indistinguishable from Somali land bandits, except maybe they have less technicals.

Your plan to drop leaflets would not be fully effective because (1) it is not clear where the "pirates" live, as they are part of the population and (2) doubtless many of the "pirates" are illiterate, albeit enthusiastic members of the Sunni Islam faith.

Thus your suggested "open season" on the "pirates" would most likely be seen as an unprovoked attack by the US military on some of the poorest members of Islam, and yet more proof the thing to do about the Americans is fight a jihad against them.

Pirates operate with impunity because they can.

The Russians may well be less careful about who they kill in an effort to fight "pirates", however, the net effect will almost certainly be zilch. The problem is Somalia has no law except armed gangs. And forcing a place like that to be lawful is not so easy, without resorting to some very bloody collective punishment.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Whoohoo!!!

Pirates have started shooting amongst themselves, with three dead reported. Pitty they are muslims, or rum would also be a feature.

[John Kettler]

Bigduke6,

Someone needs to improve the quality of reporting then, for there's a rather large gap between a "state of the art high speed boat" and Walid's motorized seagoing canoe. Even with an illiterate population, there are ways of passing the word, ranging from a quiet message in the right ears to the high tech TV and radio gee whizzery of Commando Solo and similar. Also, if they're so poor, how is they've got a booming ripoff business going at millions of dollars-tens of millions of ransom per seizure?

The lessons of history show that pirates, clear back to classical times, operate with impunity until direct action is taken against them and/or the conditions which made them feasible no longer apply, as in the case of two warring parties with the pirates scooping up victims while the navies of the warring parties are otherwise occupied elsewhere. Pirates vs. regular forces in head to head naval fight generally equals disaster for the pirates. And these guys certainly aren't capable of the incredible things Morgan did to the Spanish with his literal pirate fleet in Panama.

I think arming the merchies with self-defense weaponry that can outreach the pirates and antiboarding measures are a good start, but if I were the Somalis, I'd expect to start losing pirates and vessels once the Russians arrive. Lots of them. Where we would prefer to stop and search, are prepared to shoot the engine out and more if need be, the Russians are quite likely to simply treat the whole affair as live fire gunnery practice, resulting in both fewer pirates and vessels but also well-fed sharks! I think a few Q-ship type operations would have quite an effect on the pirates' boldness, too. They prey on weakness, and it would be trivial to arrange a helicopter deliverable (for security and to keep the pirates guessing) package of weapons and men sufficient to take all the fun out of the game. In any event, unless and until one or more countries steps up and does something, the problem is not only going to remain but will keep getting worse.

Regards,

John Kettler