The Hasrabit Campaign

[Paper Tiger]

Pandur

someone else reported having this problem in a post earlier on this page. Peach Orchard was getting crashes and Secondbrooks posted a fix for it. It looks like it's there might be a graphics card incompatiblity with the minefields. There's only one mission in the whole campaign with mines so it won't happen again.

Yes, Strong Stand is very challenging. I could post spoilers for people to tell you the best way to handle them, at least in my opinion. I actually enjoy doing the counterattack with them and don't have problems with FF or routing anymore. But you managed to get a win which will save your ass a bit later on in the campaign. Don't worry too much about casualties. Unless you have a super computer, you won't be able to run the final mission if all three companys are nearly at full strength. If you're taking less than 50% core force casualties then you're doing well.

bodkin

don't worry, I won't take it the wrong way. It wasn't my intention to make it the most difficult mission ever but I certainly designed it to be tough. A failure in this mission originally dumped you out of the campaign so I expected people to take 2-3 shots at it before moving on. It's much better to reload and start again than try the branched version of 'Breakout' that you get for losing this mission. BTW, did you see a tank in the counterattacking units? If you did, you have v1. It's NOT there in v2 although it's a bit late for you.

Did you follow my advice earlier? If you did that, it should help you get through this one without too many problems. I rarely take any casualties recapturing the workhouses and the farmhouse but the pump house? O M G! I can lose up to 50% retaking it. Since it soulds like you're in need of a bit of help, here's a hint...

**************SPOILERS**********

It's very difficult to recapture the central objectives if you haven't eliminated the support units that are causing you all sorts of problems with your artillery first. They're in two groups, one behind the workshops and the other at the tool shed. Hit them HARD with anti- personnel artillery missions and they're gone.

You really should use ALL of company A's artillery on those targets before embarking on any adventures in the centre of the map. And then, hit the buildings with the tanks and move in on your first objective. Keep Company C's artillery and any other assets you have for the pump house objective. That's the real toughie.

While I think BTF is a difficult mission, I'm curious to see how long it takes for somebody else to report that they blew through this mission with very few casualties. I hope not for their sake as it will make the next two SF missions easy and also sluggish with fps.

[bodkin]

** SPOILER WARNING **

Paper Tiger,

I used company A mortars on the Farmhouse and the Tool Shed - actually killed one of the APC's there with a direct hit.

The Pumphouse is very tough but on my second attempt I kept C company in reserve to come over the top of the hill through the woods and they slaughtered the defenders, still with about 20-30% losses though. However I'd only left a skeleton force at the Farmhouse and the Work Shops and had to rush most of C company across the map to defend the Work Shops.

I was able to sneak my FO's and a couple of depleted squads back into the Farmhouse under heavy fire to deny the Reds the objective.

I really hate the grenade launchers in this mission I was cheering when they screamed in agony under my own infantry thrown grenades.

Final note about this mission, I don't mind playing a tough mission like the crossroads scenario where I felt a draw was just result.

It makes a change to know that you aren't just going to cruise to the enevitable victory by doing

the basics, however with BTF for some reason I felt even with good tactical decisions there wasn't enough room for error on the players part that they could recover from.

Still, I admire your work and look foward to any other campaigns you produce.

Cheers.

[Paper Tiger]

bodkin

It's a bit of a shame to hear that you're giving up on it. I think the phase 2 battles are all quite special and I have done a couple of things in the last two missions that I don't think anybody else has done yet. However, it's a LONG time since I played anybody else's missions so I don't know. I'm sure I'd have read about it though if they had. (If George Mc were to do a Red on Red mission, I'd definitely want to give that a go...)

I knew people would have a bit of a hard time getting a win on their first go in this mission and I originally intended the player to get dumped from the campaign if he failed. But I enjoy playing this mission SO much for so many reasons that I didn't think other people would mind replaying it until they got a win. It's a shame you haven't found it to be fun...

just to help you out if you want to continue, here is another spoiler...

********spoilers******************

Did you follow my advice exactly about the artillery and the armour? You must target the infantry in the woods BEHIND the workshops, not in the work shops themselves. The tanks will take care of those guys firing from way back. When I play BTF, I only suffer light casualties when recapturing the farmhouse and the work sheds. And most of the time, they were incurred as a result of bad tactics or impatience. It's certainly true that the pump house is a DOG to retake though.

Since you didn't see a tank in the counterattack group, you're playing v2 which is the playtested version. The counterattack is very easy to beat as long as you keep one platoon in each of the the farmhouse and the work sheds. One of the tanks held back here will help as well. Of course, this makes the pump house just that bit harder to retake... They just don't have the time to mount a proper assault on their targets. The counterattack is there to punish those folks who do something gamey by leaving the VP locations occupied only by one or two busted up units.

The casualty levels you're describing are intentional. I keep repeating this but it's an important point... taking up to 50% casualties is not a game breaker in this campaign. The later missions were ALL playtested with about 50%-60% of the at-start core forces. I even NEARLY completed 'Breakout' successfully with only two SF platoons! (that's about 30%) It was a really close thing, so close that I thought that the mission was way too easy but I didn't change ANYTHING about that one as I think it's otherwise perfect the way it is. The only phase 2 battle that's I didn't playtest to death is the old 'Heavy metal', now renamed 'Saudara Part 1- rearguard action'. I only played the final version once but I cruised through it.

[Paper Tiger]

Pandur

how are you getting on with 'The Guards Counterattack'?. If you're still having problems with it, I could post a final version with the minefields removed this weekend. The minefields are really unimportant in the mission so removing them wouldn't make it any more difficult. It just seems like an unnecessay difficulty for some people to have to overcome.

This weekend, I am planning to try out a suggestion of Steve's for changing units fitness levels during the campaign and, if it works, I want to post a FINAL version of this so that I can dedicate myself fully to my next project. If I do this, I might as well remove the mines from this mission while doing this. I am also considering putting in more air support in some missions. Not much, just doubling what's already there. Especially as slug88 has put up a Red air mod at CMMODS.

And while I'm at it, I have a question for all you guys who are playing this campaign. It seems that some people are finding it too difficult and it's spoiling their enjoyment of the campaign. If enough of you feel you'd like more artillery or something, please tell me before the weekend and I'll consider it. I already have MY final version, which I LOVE btw, and I'm not going to change anything about it for me. I really want to move on from this but I would like to make sure it's playable for you guys. If just ONE of you is finding the overall challenge acceptable, I'll be content and let the difficulty level stand as it is.

And, if you have time, what do you think of the maps? I spent a LOT of time developing them because a large part of the immersion for me comes from the detail in the maps. Which is your favourite one? Personally, the one I like the least is 'The Guards Counterattack', while I can't decided which one is my favourite as I love all the phase 2 maps AND Hill 142 and The Farm maps too. Maybe 'Breakout' would be my choice but I don't think anybody's got that far yet?

[Peach Operations]

A laundry list of reactions (with the obligatory SPOILER alert).. I hope you don't mind reading a long post, as I'm just going to put all my thoughts here:

First, yes, turning off ATI compatibility for the third mission worked.

Ambush: Played a few times; reloaded mid-game at a few points due to weird ATGM team behavior (getting up to reposition for no apparent reason, and subsequently being spotted by the enemy). It'd be nice if there were foxholes or trenches for my units to hide in (as they die very quickly when under fire as is), but then CMSF doesn't let the player place these. The mission is certainly beatable (if done right) though -- it's just very easy to see troops get rapidly wiped out if something goes wrong.

Strong Stand: Played through twice, draw the first time, forced rebel surrender the second. The workhouse attack plan was the easiest to defend against IMO -- just sit behind the reverse slope of the hill and mow the attackers down as they come over. The yard attack wasn't much harder either, however -- the big thing is just killing the tanks, in either plan.

The reserve forces weren't much useful, but you can find the enemy with them, and sometimes use them to finish off an enemy squad that's been battered by tank fire. I noticed them shooting at each other sometimes, but there didn't appear to be any casualties from that.

Guards Counterattack: Not too bad. I confess that I reloaded after losing an arty spotter (wasn't sure that I'd get another, given no replacements), and after being inattentive in another case (easy to have happen in real time mode) -- call me gamey if you wish. Overall, though, the T-72 TURMS-T you are given seem to easily overpower their opposition -- the enemy rarely even sees my tanks, and with shoot-and-scoot tactics, you're only exposed for moments at a time. Forced a rebel surrender.

Hill 142 -- fun fun, though I wonder how much infantry you really need here. One of my companies -- after an ill-fated attempt at advancing towards the ford -- sat on the ridge overlooking the town, supporting my advance. Most resistance was suppressed and destroyed by artillery, tanks, or helicopters though -- fire from the infantry didn't seem that significant, particularly given the ranges involved.

I forced a Syrian surrender, at the end -- which is interesting, because I'm not sure whether I would have found the arty spotter otherwise (I had a recon unit moving to the area behind the hill, but I'm not sure whether it would've spotted the FO in time).

The Barrier -- I gauged (correctly, I think) that this would require a reverse-slope defense after I realized that I wouldn't be able to set up infantry anywhere on the forward side of Point 313 and Point 315. I had held my units back for fear of artillery (which I don't regret -- there were a lot of shells coming down!), but the enemy's vehicles made use of this.

The problem was, though that a) I (stupidly) tried to stage hit-and-run attacks with my BMPs against the rebel forces as they tried to mass in the valley, and more importantly I failed to adequately protect the flanks of the hill. I didn't expect both flanks to cave in, moreover, so I wound up with BMPs caught in the middle -- ugh. The enemy attack on my right flank was still cut to pieces, anyway, and the attack on my left flank stalled at Point 341, but by then it was too late, and most of my force was totalled as well. I lost, *sigh*, time to move on..

Buying the Farm: This scenario makes me wish SF units in the game came with MGs of some sort (or maybe extra snipers? not sure how much that would help). Advancing across the fields after the tanks arrive is painful, and before they arrive is worse. Making matters worse is that I seem to have a terrible time getting LOS to the workhouses (though they seem to have no problem getting LOS to me!) I'm not sure what the issue is.. Lost two tanks to that ATGM, too, before I killed it.

Ultimately -- at great cost -- I got my forces into the farmhouse and workhouses, and held against the counterattack -- had to send both my remaining tanks forward to shore up the farmhouse's skeleton defense. Retaking the pump house was just not an option.

I lost, and badly. The point breakdown was (IIRC):

Me:

1000 pts -- Farmhouse

1000 pts -- Workhouses

Rebels:

1000 pts -- Pump House

500 pts -- Enemy (ie, my) casualties

2000 pts -- Friendly (ie their) casualties

Those 2000 pts for the rebels keeping their casualties down is a killer. I don't know where the threshold is, but it appears as if you'd have to cross the river and attack the enemy forces there, because the rebels on my side of the river were eviscerated (so were my units, of course).

It's frustrating, because I was under the impression that taking two out of three objectives could be enough. Maybe that's a false assumption on my part -- the briefing *does* say take all three, and the pump house probably wouldn't be there if it was supposed to be optional.

Breakout -- ugh. Due to past losses, I have no air support, and no reserve forces either. And I have 3 ATGM teams, because the fourth was lost in the first battle. I couldn't get my ATGMs into decent positions in time, before the enemy had taken the mansion. One ATGM team and some other infantry were wiped out before they could set up. The other two went into hide mode, and managed to get their weapons deployed after they enemy lost sight of them. They killed a tank or two, and then were spotted (again) and killed. I wasn't going to try to advance the remainder of my depleted infantry force against the enemy (who still had a bunch of BTRs and a few tanks), so I hit cease fire.

I may try again today, I don't know. Maybe I should have tried to set up behind Hill 762, but I don't know if the enemy tanks will advance that far. Maybe go slower this time, and see if I can avoid detection? It's iffy, though, and I'm tempted to restart the campaign in general.

If I do restart the campaign, I'll have to give thought to holding off attacks 'til all my forces have arrived. I normally would think that you ought to attack early and seize the initiative, but in some cases the enemy was already set in their positions, and I didn't get much benefit from striking early.

Overall, a few high points:

- I like how many of the scenarios make use of enemy artillery. Even if it's not falling on your forces, it still keeps you off forward slopes while the enemy advances, and forces you to decide when to move forward (if at all) to occupy your troops' battle positions (is the barrage over? Do I want to risk it?).

- Probably goes without saying, but I liked the general concept in the Phase 1 missions (do this right, and you'll have air support / less incoming arty / etc). It gives your actions a higher, tangible purpose beyond simply putting text in the "Commander's Intent" section.

Didn't like:

- Seems like there's a lot of "The enemy is coming to overrun your positions! Throw him back, and retake what you've lost!" It gets kind of redundant. I haven't gotten further than Breakout, so I don't know whether the rest of the campaign continues to follow this theme, admittedly. Not a huge issue, though.

- Where's my howitzers? Wouldn't this crucial sector be getting "main effort"-style support? I guess the big question might be playability (given how powerful arty can be in CMSF).

[Pandur]

how are you getting on with 'The Guards Counterattack'?. If you're still having problems with it, I could post a final version with the minefields removed this weekend.

damn, its so slugish without ATI left klick. thats rather painfull.

if there is anything you could change beside the minefileds give the strong stand reserves a +0 modifier. the thing is they are uncontrolable in wego. you send em "there", they come under fire, they pinn on 1 second, start to crawl in the next and are "tired" or worse after the end of the turn, becouse they cant crawl 5 or 10 meters without getting tired.

i mean I can do that, i can crawl a lot more without beeing "tired" :mad:

however, the point is, if they dont all die or panic that turn, you need to wait another 1 to 3 turns for them to return to ready again.

[gmfrank]

Good campaign, I rarely play Red on Red, and it's been quite eye opening to "see how the other side lives" in the game. Almost to phase 2, looking forward to how those missions play out!

I have one question (not quite related to campaign) but does anybody notice when you double click on a dismounted mechanized platoon leader, it selects all infantry and ALL the platoons BMPs as well?

I don't recall this happening with any American units and their mounts. Quite annoying... lost a more then a few BMPs by moving them from their cover accidentally...

[bodkin]

*More Spoilers*

Paper Tiger,

I haven't given up and so far I'm finding the Breakout to be relatively easy. My ATGMs on top of the hill have devastated the red armour and my green troops are waiting in the mansion for any reds who make it through.

Putting one of my t-55s in a hull down position at the end of the road helps as well for catching passing traffic.

I'm sure there's some diabolical twist waiting for me but.

[Paper Tiger]

Peach Operations

nice long post and great feedback, thank you.

"- Seems like there's a lot of "The enemy is coming to overrun your positions! Throw him back, and retake what you've lost!" It gets kind of redundant. I haven't gotten further than Breakout, so I don't know whether the rest of the campaign continues to follow this theme, admittedly. Not a huge issue, though."

After Breakout, there's, 'Saudara Part 1 - rearguard action' in which YOU are the enemy coming to overrun their positions. Red's mission is to throw you back and retake what they've lost. Of course, it probably won't pan out that way for the AI as you are capable of reacting to their moves. It should be fun.

Then, there's 'Saudara Part 2 - The Assault'. This one is more like 'Hill 142' but not the same. And of course, the final 'Hasrabit' which is ,er... more of what you described. Oh well.

Yes, with the notable exception of 'The Barrier', the Republican Guards missions are designed to be easy to win and hopefully fun too. This is because the Guards are WAY superior to their opponents. However, we will probably find that for some folks, these missions are difficult enough thank you, and that's fine by me.

However, the first version of 'The Guards Counterattack' was insanely difficult as the enemy had a platoon of AT-4s and they nailed your T-72s as soon as they popped their heads up. I did enjoy this but I felt that it wouldn't be enjoyable for anybody else. The REAL challenge for the player is to do everything without ammo resupply or replacements with weakened troops.

Don't worry about the artillery spotters too much. The organic artillery spotter calls the battalions artillery assets in more quickly but all the RG Missions have at least one non-core artillery spotter in the battle's OB. Of course, losing the organic one will hurt you in the long term.

It would seem that I've pitched the difficulty level of 'Buying the farm' too high for most of you. If you restart the campaign, you're hunch to wait before attacking is the right one. There are a number of things that you CAN do while waiting for the rest of your forces to arrive but a frontal assault on either the farmhouse or the worksheds is definitely not one of them. The key to success here is to watch the AI attack on the initial reserve positions very carefully and use this intelligence to plan your artillery strikes and your counterattack. You DEFINITLEY want to make killing that ATGM team a priority target for your artillery. Those two lost tanks would have smoothed things over for you in this mission.

I had originally intended to make a loss in 'The Farm' mission an automatic 'out' but changed my mind later in the development of the campaign. It would appear that bodkin is having some success in this mission while still having lost in The Farm. I am really interested to hear how he gets on with it.

The victory conditions in the Farm will be impossible to fulfill if you don't tackle the pump house objective. There's a significant percentage of the AI force assigned to that objective. The actual percentage of the overall force you must kill to deprive the AI of this bonus is actually quite low compared to most of the other missions in the campaign. If you kill most of the defenders around the pump house, they will DEFINITELY lose that bonus.

You must USE your artillery in the Farm mission. Don't try to save it all for a later mission. Of course, keep some as you'll need a bit to smooth your passage through 'Breakout' but not too much. And, if you've got it, the air support is very useful too.

If you read my designers notes for the campaign, you'll find that I was wishing the Special Forces had some kind of machine guns in support too. The conscripts have some but they really won't stand up under fire for very long. Perhaps if they put some distance between themselves and the enemy...?

With regards to 'Hill 142' one company of infantry wasn't enough while two semed like overkill. Still, if you don't kill the ATGM teams, this mission becomes very difficult.

"- Where's my howitzers? Wouldn't this crucial sector be getting "main effort"-style support? I guess the big question might be playability (given how powerful arty can be in CMSF)."

Absolutely correct, sir. When I started designing the campaign, I gave Blue a battery of self propelled howitzers, the best that the Syrians have in their arsenal as it seemed appropriate that they'd have it in such an important mission. It was cut out quickly though as it was WAY too powerful in the hands of the human player. The AI had NO chance whatsoever. The only way to make the missions challenging was to double the AI strength OR to remove the artillery. Bye bye artillery. The mortars are powerful enough anyway.

Pandur

I'm afraid I playtested the whole thing in Real Time only so I had no idea how hard it would be to cotrol the green troops using WEGO. If I make a newer version, I'll definitely look at at this as handling the poor quality troops looks like a challenge that most folks don't relish. Because I loved playing as the Russians in CMBO, I actually enjoy handling these poor quality troops in that mission. It's as close to a CMBO experience that I've had in CMSF. Anyway, your suggestions seem reasonable so I'll implement them for v3.

Once you get through 'The Guards Counterattack' mission, there are no more mines so there shouldn't be any more problems for you.

gmfrank

thanks for your comments. Yes, you have to be careful clicking on the platoon, or company, commander as it selects all the units under his command. I've lost a couple of BMPS due to this too. Please let me know how you get on in the Farm mission. I am really hoping to hear from somebody who beat it very soon. Otherwise I'm going to have to change it to make it easier to win.

Glad you're enjoying the Red on Red experience. It's definitely very differnt from playing as the US. Becuase their equipment is less than a sure thing, it makes any action less predictable. It makes you appreciate why the US spent so much money developing the javelin ATGM system. Even the AT-14, the best missile in the Syrian arsenal, won't often kill a hull down target so you have to plan your shots more carefully and pay attention to the target information.

[Pandur]

I'll definitely look at at this as handling the poor quality troops looks like a challenge that most folks don't relish.

its not like i wouldnt be up for the challenge but i have the feeling the 1.08 patch overdid it with their fragileness!

and thats greens, not conscripts.

the fact that you cannot interfere for one minute is though when playing with such guys. they rout themselfs out of thier position sometimes, 5 meter crawling, wich you cant interrupt while watching the turn, makes em tired.

T55 area fire on the farmhouse, while these guys behind the wall, rattled em and made em do their self preservation thingy.

one minute is enough for this guys to get from rested to tired and shaken/rattled/panic. youre back in command phase, you cant even hide them

[Paper Tiger]

Yeah, it sounds pretty horrible to play in WEGO. When I do v3, I'll make the leaders a bit more effective and hopefully that will help them out a bit. Although, to be very honest, I'm not really sure what the leadership bonuses do in the game. Maybe I'll post a question in the main forum and see what comes out of that.

[Pandur]

i guess something along the lines of the old bonuses. command, stealth, combat, moral...just mixed into one, wich is bad but...ok.

"Yeah, it sounds pretty horrible to play in WEGO"

not so bad

but this guys are hardcore.

[Schmoly War]

Just completed "the farm".

The key is.....

To use your mortars to intercept the enemy forces going on to the pump house air burst style. The main road going in there gives time for your arty to take out the enemy troops.

When your first reinforcements arrive, run your spotter up to the highest point and call in some linear airburst.

In my game, they didnt even reach the pump house before they were destroyed.

Loved the enemy reinforcements coming in. Had some absolutly lovely bloody carnage going on there.

Very neat scenario.

IMO no need to change the parameters in this one. Folks should learn how to beat it as it is! Definitly possible. Just think outside the box.

[ May 01, 2008, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Schmoly War ]

[Paper Tiger]

Finally, somebody has beaten it. Okay, so there will be no changes to this one then. Thanks for the feedback Schmoly War.

[bodkin]

Originally posted by Schmoly War:

Just completed "the farm".

When your first reinforcements arrive, run your spotter up to the highest point and call in some linear airburst.

In my game, they didnt even reach the pump house before they were destroyed.

I don't know, that sounds like a little bit of a 'gamey' type solution, in terms of that it probably wasn't in the scenario designers intentions of how you should play it but if Paper Tiger dosen't mind then who am I to judge.

BTW I got a Major Victory on my second attempt, but it was a last minute desperate rush to defend the Farmhouse and the Workshops.

[Paper Tiger]

bodkin

How did you get on with 'Breakout' without the reserves? I'm especially curious about the AI's assault on the mansion as that's the AI's main objective. Some of the other AI groups move in support of that attack so you must have found it quite a challenge.

With regards to Schmoly War's tactics, I'm not really concerned how people beat it although that sounds like a fair tactic. I thought I'd playtested that mission every which way but I certainly never did it that way myself as my earlier posts reveal. But the keywords in his post that I was looking for are:

linear airburst, and

artillery.

That's the key to getting a win in this mission. I don't know how many of you guys are using the linear option. Personally, I think it's much tougher on infantry than the area fire target circle, especially when that target circle is 80+m in radius.

BTW, further to Peach operation's post, a word about the Enemy casualty bonus. In this mission, the Enemy casualty bonus is 2000 which might seem to some to be a bit excessive. But please consider this, you start the scenario in control of the three victory point objectives, (1500 points) and your force is intact (500 points) while the enemy has nothing but his casualty bonus. That means if you hit cease fire immediately, you get a draw. Okay, that's not good enough to get the optimal branch to the next mission but it's still a cheat.

The Enemy casualty bonus is there to keep YOU fighting until the end of the mission. You have to contest the mission actively to get a win.

[bodkin]

I don't know what you mean 'without reserves' I had alot of green troops to begin with then got about four platoons of SF troops.

At the moment I've killed all the t-72s but I've lost two t-55s, I've halted the advance on the Mansion but I'm struggling to make foward progress, so it's a bit of a stalemate at the moment but with around 50 mins to go I'm hoping to get to some of the objectives.

[Paper Tiger]

Sorry, I was getting you confused with Peach Orchard when I wrote no reserves. If you lose The Farm mission, the Reserves are gone from the phase 2 operations. And they do have one important function to play in those missions but I'm not saying...

You did really well to hold the mansion and, with 50 minutes still to go, it sounds like you're doing fine as long as you look after the two tanks you have remaining. You don't have any artillery left or air support do you? You might want to concentrate your next effort towards recapturing the pump house from the Rebels if they occupy it. That's not a waste of your time as they get VP's for occupying it.

BTW, do you like the map? I think it's one of the better ones in the campaign.

[bodkin]

Ok, got a Total Victory on Breakout, held the mansion all game with a mixture of green and SF troops, took more losses here than anywhere else on the battlefield,took the pumphouse with about 30 mins to go with some fresh greens with SF supporting.

Well placed short tactical mortar strikes really gave me the advantage as well as the superb work by the ATGM boys who wiped out most of the red armour. The battle for the three objective buildings turned nasty for a while but good supressive fire from the surviving tanks and the last of the mortars helped alot.

I never had to use the BTR's or their human cargo, I kept them back as emergency backup incase of any last minute surprises but they never fired a shot.

Onward to Saudara Part 1, this is looking like the best scenario in the campaign so far. A really nice map layout with a few interesting little tactical challenges to start off with.

[ May 02, 2008, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: bodkin ]

[Peach Operations]

Replayed Breakout, got a draw (which apparently is enough to move on). My ATGM teams still took hits getting set up, and apparently lost some of their ammo as a result, but were able to hide and take out nearly all the tanks. The enemy around the pump house and mansion weren't as bad as I thought they'd be, even if my squads had to assault BTRs and a tank from close range!

The store houses still were a problem, though -- I took two rows of them and lost much of what I had left trying to take the third.

Also played Saudara part 1 -- not much to say here. It went pretty well, even though I was missing almost all of D Company (which was smashed when I played The Barrier). Taking the two buildings (the ones assigned as objectives) was almost a sideshow compared to the rebel ATGMs and wave after wave of tanks.

[Pandur]

so, lucky me. i figured that i cam make ATI left klick option ON after the first turn is done and you dont see the blue mine markers anymore.

i still try to dodge any spoilers in here, so i gona go again and finish the counterattack today.

[Paper Tiger]

Well, it sounds like some of you guys are going to finish the campaign this weekend. That's good news. I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback on 'Saudara Part 2' and 'Hasrabit'. I'm going to hold off on doing v3 until I've found a way to make 'Saudara Part 1' more lethal. It LOOKS scary but it's quite easy to beat as long as you've kept your tank force in good order.

Incidentally, how many T-72 TURMS have you guys lost so far? I usually found that I lost 1 or maybe 2 in the first two RG missions and then 1 or 2 again in 'The Barrier'.

[bodkin]

**SPOILERS**

Paper Tiger,

Well all of sudden I'm starting not to like 'Saudara Part 1' I accepted it when one of my T-72's was knocked out by an ATGM on a far hill because I thought it was safe and moved it onto hill 294. I dealt with that ATGM with mortar fire, but now I find my reserves are delivered straight into the firing line of another ATGM which destroyed my BMP and one of my ATGM crews before I could do anything with them, even worse my reserve tanks appeared a turn or two later and I lost one to the red ATGM because I'd only just called in a mortar mission on his location and couldn't neutralise him yet.

I don't think alot of players like it when their reserves get deployed straight into the line of fire so that they don't even get a chance to lose them from their own mistakes. Alas I'm going to reload from a previous save and get my reinforcements to bolt for cover as soon as they appear. I'm playing this as WEGO so I don't know if you factored that in, having the reserves sit there in that kill zone for a minute was really frustrating. May I suggest giving the reinforcements some cover by changing the map elevation or something.

Still I'm venturing on.

There is a small error in the briefing saying to get your ATGM crews onto hill 254 when it should read hill 294.

[Paper Tiger]

bodkin

I'll have a look into this later today. Personally, I hate it when that happens too. I must confess, I never saw this happen when I playtested it so either I killed the offending unit prior to the arrival of the reinforcements or I've missed something.

[Paper Tiger]

Ah, you're right. There is one ATGM team that starts the game with LoS to the reinforcement's entry point. But, as he happens to have very good LoS to most of the board, he's hard to avoid. I have to confess that I always 'discover' him very early in the mission so he's been eliminated by the time my reinforcements arrive. I'm surprised he didn't open up on you earlier in the mission. You must have been moving very stealthily.

*******************SPOILERS******************

I playtested it a couple of times this afternoon. The first time, as usual, I found that ATGM team very quickly and he was killed quickly so that I could move B Company's infantry into the main orchard area. When my reinforcements arrived, they had no problems and were able to advance right along the road to the edge of the orchards without attracting any enemy fire. And that's ben pretty much my experience every time I've played that mission

So, I quit the mission and loaded it up again and this time just sat and watched the clock tick down (VERY boring) and of course, when D Company arrived, they got picked off very quickly. So, you're right, I'll have to rework the map as you suggest to make it safe for the reinforcements to arrive. It's not fun when that happens.