The Hasrabit Campaign

[bodkin]

I wouldn't change saudara pt2 too much, I play WEGO and took heavy losses in the town, the high walls meant my troops had to advance into the courtyards blind only to then do the crawl of death for the rest of the turn.

I needed that air suport to as I had no arty and it was the only way to put the ATGM's out of action in the corner.

There is another typo in the briefing it refers to a hill that is numbered wrong.

[handihoc]

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS.

I just completed Hill 142. I thought I'd done reasonably okay as I took the village, albeit with pretty heavy losses. But I got a Total Defeat. I'd forgotten I had to hunt down the FO - but in fact, ******SPOILER!!!****** when I reviewed the map, his position was somewhere almost impossible for me to have got to.

Because of my losses in the previous battle I was a bit slow on this one. Had to wait for the tanks to arrive before I could do anything very aggressive. Thankfully, ***************SPOILER!!!!*********** there was a second FO, which gave me access to the mortars and air support. I sorely needed these.

Even so, it was a hell of a tough battle. I'll play the single scenario version one day, as it's a great battle. I do think your placing of that enemy FO is a bit questionable, though, given his apparent importance to the mission.

I did take a mass of punishment getting into the village and beyond. There were some very well set-up ambushes and some dastardly surprises.

Loved the transition from night to light.

I'm really enjoying this campaign. I'll let you know how the next battle goes.

[Paper Tiger]

bodkin

don't worry. There is ZERO percent chance of me taking out the airstrike as I think it's a cool feature in that mission. If it made it too easy for some folks to win, well, so what. They can just have some fun playing this mission instead. Besides, you're so close to the finale, it would be a bit hard on the player to make that mission so difficult that you had to restart the whole campaign to get a win.

I haven't made any actual changes to Saudara Part 2 except deactivating that AI plan. However, for those players who got the 'wrong' plan, the mission will definitely seem much tougher if they ever play v3. Instead, it should become more difficult by default from the changes made to the previous RG missions, of which, Hill 142 is one of.

Handihoc

The fighting for the village is indeed very tough but, with all the artillery and air support you've got at your disposal, it's usually a sure thing as long as you don't rush it. I felt that the Hill mission was too easy but decided to let it stand as the first three missions were quite tough. This particular mission was playtested many times compiled with the Counterattack mission so it was carefully balanced.

SPOILERS

Yes, the FOS is positioned in a location which is impossible to reach ACCIDENTALLY. He's also positioned so that he'll likely survive a 'blind' pre-emptive artillery strike on his position.

Except for a time when my forces got very badly beaten up in the Guards Counterattack mission, I always managed to clear out the village and kill the FO before time ran out. I also had that mission playtested independently and he thought that it was easy to get the FO too. So it sounds like your boys just took a hell of a beating in the first mission. (BTW, You DID win the Guards Counterattack mission didn't you? You get less time to complete the Hill mission if you failed.)

I had toyed with the idea of giving him multiple locations in the different AI plans but stuck with this one as you had to have control of the village and the mansion to have a safe run at his position. It's also the most logical position for him as he's overlooking the valley. Were he somewhere in the village, it would be too easy to take him out accidentally with artillery and creating uncertainty in the player's mind if he couldn't find him 'cos he had been killed while hiding.

yes, I love the transition from dark to full daylight too. It's a really beautiful map and that effect shows it off quite well.

Now, you've finished Hill 142. That means you're going to play The Barrier next. Good luck. You'll need it. I look forward to hearing how you fared there.

BTW, I'm extremely happy to hear that you're playing on regardless of a bad result. Good for you.

[bodkin]

Paper Tiger,

I'm on the last mission, I know it's nothing you can control but my RPG-29's seem ineffective against the T-55MV's. Don't know if anyone else has had such an experience but I'm completely out of AT rounds and I'm yet to kill a T-55. I've noted one T-55 took 8 hits and is still fighting! I've seen them knock out M1A1's in one shot so that Kontakt ERA on the MV's must be quality gear.

I'm enjoying this mission so far, hopefully I'll get some more AT options with the reinforcements.

UPDATE: First reinforcements arrived with only one RPG crew who have no ammo. The tanks are in the Hasarabit South sector so I'm just going to have to hang on and hope for the moment.

[ May 24, 2008, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: bodkin ]

[Paper Tiger]

Yeah, Red stuff is no certain thing. I guess there's a random number generated here and you're just coming up VERY unlucky. Are those hits happening on the frontal or side armour? I frequently get kills with a single side hit which isn't too difficult to pull off on this mission seeing as how the streets are so narrow. BTW, there were originally 10 T-55's in this mission. Bet you're glad I changed that.

[bodkin]

Ok, finally got kills on 2 out of the 3 T-55's with rooftop shots. There is still one that refuses to die it's taken about 14 hits now but has gone a bit quiet. Now I'm dealing with the human wave coming down the west flank. Some arty would be nice but this looks like it's going to be a real grind. I'm enjoying it though, hopefully I'll have enough troops to mount a counter attack and take the north.

[bodkin]

Finally got around to finishing the campaign with a Total Victory!

Although I admit there were some save-reloads on some of the hard missions like 'buying the farm' and that other one I can't remember the name of where you had to defend a farm complex then counter attack.

**SPOILER WARNING**

Paper Tiger, I was cursing your name in frustration during the last mission, that Red counter attack at the end had me in all sorts of trouble, I had very little left in the way of AT options but I was very lucky to finally get a one shot kill on one of the T-55's with one of my last RPG rounds. The other T-55 was abandoned by it's crew after having grenades rained on it when it came into the town. I would have really liked another RPG-29 squad as reinforcement.

One interesting thing I've never noticed before was that squads that were out of ammo when position over dead members of other squads would take their ammo, everyone else probably knows about this but I didn't know that feature existed in the game. I positioned a squad over some dead guys and when they were acting as medics the ammo bar starting going up, which was nice.

Overall I loved the maps really natural looking terain and believable landscapes. The only thing I would have prefered was if the scale of the battles was smaller, I prefer more intimate engagements, maybe just a few platoons on either side. Anyway top marks and thanks for all your hard work.

[handihoc]

Originally posted by Paper Tiger:

BTW, I'm extremely happy to hear that you're playing on regardless of a bad result. Good for you.

I'm happy to do that. I know that's the way you've designed the campaign and if I get my ass kicked, well, I'll have the bonus of being able to go back to the start and replay what is a thoroughly enjoyable campaign.

[gmfrank]

bodkin

*** SPOILER WARNING***

I had trouble with those T-55's during the initial attack as well in the final mission. I had blunted the infantry assaults on the southern sector, but just didn't have luck taking the Tanks out. They basically were sitting in the middle of my positions while my remaining forces hid (I tried to grenade them from the rooftops... the tanks were not amused and blew them to hell).

Once the first group of reinforcements arrived I was able to stalk the tanks with my AT teams. It was oh so sweet to finally take those bastards out!

[Paper Tiger]

Interesting. I like what I'm reading here. It looks like most of you are getting a win in the final mission but you're having to work your asses off to get it. That probably means that, overall, I managed to get the balance just right.

When there are no AT-14 teams in your OB, the tanks in the Special Forces missions are very dangerous. I suspect one of the reasons why bodkin was getting lots of hits but no kills on one tank is because the RPG teams had expended all their HEAT rounds and were firing their thermobaric rounds at the tank. I often overlooked this when I was playing 'Strong Stand' and I'd get these ineffective hits. When I checked the team's ammo loads, they had no HEAT but were firing their thermos. Those thermo warheads are really heavy hitters against infantry.

quote - "Overall I loved the maps really natural looking terain and believable landscapes. The only thing I would have prefered was if the scale of the battles was smaller, I prefer more intimate engagements, maybe just a few platoons on either side."

100% agree on that score. It was never my intention to create unplayable monsters and, generally, the Special Forces missions are about what I wanted. But the first two RG missions grew and grew as I playtested them. The later missions could be huge if you managed to get wins without losing a substantial part of your cores.

With regards to the maps, yeah, a LOT of work went into each map, especially 'Hill 142' and 'Hasrabit'. And yet, my personal favourite is "The Farm' map which was actually quite simple to do.

Anyway, I'm currently in the playtesting stage of my second campaign, called 'Perdition', this time a mini one with just three missions. If you thought the Hasrabit campaign maps were natural and realistic, these are going to surprise you. Even I think they're stunning. And I've managed to keep the player's forces down to about two companies, one mech infantry and one tank in the first two missions. That means that there are potentially four companies available for the third and final mission but so far, while playtesting it, I still end up with the equivalent of two companies in the last mission. After hyping up Hasrabit by posting loads of screenshots over the last three months of development, I'm not going to do that again. When it's finished, then I'll post lots to promote it. Hopefully, it will be finished before the Marines module comes out and then I want to do something much smaller with US combined arms on maps like these new ones.

[ChrisND]

To chime in on the Hasrabit mission, one T-55 blew through my defenses and drove seemingly at random around the town near the depot. I had to hunt it down with multiple RPG teams (and it nailed several of them) before I could finally get a shot and take it out.

[Paper Tiger]

Yup, Red on Red is definitely more unpredictable than Blue v Red when it comes to balancing missions. And the RPG-29 teams v the T-55s in the final mission are a very good example of this.

It's no exaggeration to say that on more than a few occassions while playtesting this mission, my RPG teams got kills on the T-55s with their very first shots, therefore, three shots, three dead tanks. Not every time I admit, but often enough for me to think that it was more than fair. That's why the AT-14 teams don't reappear in this mission and why there are no friendly tanks.

SPOILERS

Many of those one shot kills usually came from above and on the side of the tank. This was regularly doable because I positioned the wrecked cars to channel them into the narrow alleyways where my RPG teams were hiding. Also, the tanks frequently get ahead of their infantry support in this mission which leaves them horribly vulnerable. I'd have liked to have had them in their own AI group but we're limited to 8 of those with only 16 orders and other things got the priority, like the small attacks on important features like the Hospital for example.

[handihoc]

****SPOILERS!!!***

I finished The Barrier. Great stuff. Got a Total Victory - it wasn't too difficult to win. I sat behind the crest and maintained a semi-static defence. That way I was able to take out the enemy as they came over, or around. Some dicey moments, and a lot of fun. Good to see the AI putting up what was a pretty challenging attack. I seemed to have the full complement of forces, despite earlier losses.

Now I'm half an hour into Buying the Farm and . . . I think this one was designed by The Devil! I've taken the Farm but the rest of it's going to take a lot of clever tactics. My tanks are currently unable to advance because so many enemy missiles are out there waiting, so I'm having to crawl infantry forward to search 'em out whilst waiting for an artillery bombardment on the central compound.

[Paper Tiger]

handihoc

great stuff. well done. A win in 'The barrier' will smooth things over a bit later in the campaign. 'Buying the farm' was intended to be a tough mission and I had intended for the player to get dumped from the campaign if he lost this one. So I wanted 'The farm' to be fun too in case people had to replay it to get a win. But late on I had another idea for a branch that gives the player one more chance, albeit a small one.

[handihoc]

I seem to have found a bug.

*******SPOILER!!!******

With an hour to go in Buying The Farm (and I'm buying it at a hell of a cost!) I get notification that Reserve Tanks Have Arrived.

But they haven't. Three turns on and there are still no more tanks, just the two from earlier.

[Paper Tiger]

Ah, now that's a mistake. You're playing the mission with the extra artillery support for the Red side because you lost the 'Hilll' mission. As a result, he's calling in artillery on your reserves moving to reinforce you and, as a result, you get less tanks. Did you get any extra artillery support with that reinforcement slot? I deleted the tanks from the OB and that usually removes the reinforcement slot too.

[handihoc]

No extra artillery, no. The only artillery has been the two mortars (one at start, one at arrival of second company) plus a helicopter.

[bodkin]

I noticed that too when I played it but I never lost any previous missions, I just put it down to an minor oversight in the senario construction.

[Paper Tiger]

Ah, found it. I originally had two platoons of reserve tanks but I deleted one set. But because they still appear in the OB as greyed out units, and still set as R4, it kept that reinforcement slot open. That's been changed now. Thanks guys.

[handihoc]

I completed Buying the Farm a few days ago. Very, very tough, particularly with depleted forces and the lack of those reserve tanks.

With those tanks I think I might have had a chance of winning. Without them, after several attempts, I had to call for a ceasefire. *****SP0ILER!!!*****

I did think I'd done enough to achieve at least a draw, but then came the enemy counterattack, which took me completely by surprise and which I simply didn't have the forces left to resist.

It's a very absorbing battle, and I'd like to replay it with the full complement, but I'm not sure it's winnable with the forces I had at my command.

Anyway, Ceasefire (Total Defeat, IIRC) took me into the interesting Barracks scenario, and then on to Breakout, which I've just started. I'll report back later.

[The_Red_Rage]

In my recent attempt at Buying the Farm my reserves managed to completely repel the attack on the Farmhouse and severely mangle the force attacking The Pump House (20-30 casualties inflicted). Farmhouse defenders took out all but a command section, which was taken care of by the special forces relief platoon. I moved all reserve forces off positions prior to the prep arty barrage, and quickly moved them back after it was done (would that be considered gamey? i figured if briefing clearly stated that there will be prep barrage such move would be OK), so they were in full force facing the assault. Workhouse defenders failed (played the scenario 6 times by now, and Workhouse always crumbled without much resistance). Farmhouse held out like a champ - positioned all the men on first floors (with exception of two sections of the building facing the enemy approach), left them on hide, so they pretty much opened up on attacking force at point blank range.

Pump House presents some excellent crossfire ambush opportunities. Attacking force approaches from the road, so to enter the pump house complex they are channeled through a narrow path. AGS-17 section + PK in one house, Rifle section in another, and another section behind the small hill in the bushes south of pump house. Ambush works wonders, even with conscript troops. Eventually Pump house gets rolled, but not without significant casualties to the Red side.

On the side note, EXCELLENT campaign Paper Tiger. Detailed and immersive briefings, great flow, quality maps and best of all - RED on RED! Quality stuff, and most fun i had with CMSF (playing the campaign for the third time btw;).

Dream come true would be a similar campaign designed for one of the conflicts within ex-Soviet respublics. Hasrabit just had that feel to me, even with its fictionalized storyline.

RED on RED FTW!

[handihoc]

Red Rage, that's impressive. Were you playing at Elite (I was)? Did you have full complement of troops and reinforcements (mine were reduced due to losses in previous encounters).

I didn't move my original reserves offsite, but with hindsight I should have because, as you say, we get warning of the barrage in the briefing, which I consider a legitimate heads-up intel.

Yes, it IS an excellent campaign, and one I'm sure I'll come back to. It does have a very different feel to Blue/Red, and I simply love what this SF game engine has to offer.

And this is just the beginning!

[Paper Tiger]

handihoc:

I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on with 'Breakout'. the version you're playing is pretty tough but at least you'll have the air support to help you out.

Red Rage:

thanks for that. BTW, when I play The Farm mission, I usually run like hell before the artillery barrage starts so I consider it to be a legitimate tactic. Indeed, if you don't, the mission becomes very difficult. I've NEVER managed to repel the attack on the farmhouse with only the reserves though. Nice one.

I have almost finished Hasrabitv3 which will be the final version. I was originally planning to hold on to it until the Marines module came out to take advantage of the new undisclosed game play features but it'll probably be another 6-8 weeks before we see that. So I'll post up v3 sometime very soon. I posted something about the changes on the last page if you're interested.

I have a new campaign in the works, once again Red on Red and, right now, it's just three missions long. That might just change though as I have ideas for expanding it. But it definitely won't be out before the Marines module.

[The_Red_Rage]

Handihoc,

I was playing on Vet, but next version of the campaign i'll give it a go on Elite. Tactic with the farmhouse should still work. It's abit explotative of AI's inflexbility (once it starts the attack it just pushes trough sending even mg and Coy command units into direct assault). Also i managed to get the arty spotter in the previous mission so there was no heavy barrage prior. Reserves manned a completely intact structure with most of the wall facing the assault still up, channeling enemy advance into two narrow paths. With that setup troop quality played little role, when over 20 rifles opened up on attackers at 15-30m ranges.

Paper Tiger,

Only three missions Thanks to Hasrabit i am completely addicted to Red on Red and cannot play Blue on Red missions anymore - and the new "fix" will be only 3 missions long? :eek: Would be fun if u added a few smaller missions (ambush, get a supply/relief convoy across, recon defenses prior to assault) that could tip the balance of larger engagements. It was done to a degree in Hasrabit, but those "smaller" tip-the-balance engagements turned out to be the most epic battles. I refer to the Barrier and Buying the Farm specifically. Series of smaller battles prior to larger engagements would further help connect the player and the troops (which Hasrabit already did a wonderful job of btw) and make the larger battles all the more epic.

[Paper Tiger]

Red Rage

"only three missions"

believe me, I'm tempted to let it grow into a monster too. The conception is to create one 'extended' scenario in which the player performs a flanking attack to draw out the enemy reserves. It wouldn't be that difficult to expand the capaign to include the main front too with success on one front affecting the battles on the other. A bit like Hasrabit actually. It's extremely likely that I will expand it at a later date but for now, I just want to keep this one 'small'.

The main problem with designing a large dynamic campaign is that it takes months of work to do and, even after all that work, there WILL still be mistakes in the posted version. Designing a dynamic campaign isn't like creating a single scenario, so the two can't be compared. After Hasrabit, I really wanted to try my hand at a shorter campaign with 2-4 missions.

All three missions take place on very large and highly detailed maps and they're all 2 hours+ long. At the moment, the forces on both sides are smaller than the average Hasrabit mission but the later ones are growing. The first mission is completely finished with 5 AI plans to ensure replayability. The second mission is nearly there and should be finished later this week while the third is still being developed. If I stick with the mini campaign format, it should be finished sometime next month, probably before the Marines module arrives. I'm not going to bother waiting for the module to arrive before posting it as I want to start a new campaign using the Syrian Airborne forces with some T-90s in support. I have a feeling that that particular combination of forces will really fire up my imagination so it will probably be an epic campaign. I've also found a good site for it on Google Earth.

I understand how you feel about Blue v Red too. Every so often, I fire up a US v Syria scenario but I just can't get into it as I want to play a more conventional combat situation. I prefer meeting engagements and battles in the countryside with perhaps an urban finale (like Hasrabit!) to an urban slugfest. I also want to play combined arms missions as I enjoy the vehicular action. The three battles in the mini campaign are going to be VERY challenging so it will probably take people a long time to complete the campaign, especially as you MUST win the second mission to open up the third. That won't be easy to do. The tanks duels are hard.

Anyway, I'll probably start up a thread this weekend with some screenshots if BFC have successfully completed their move.