LOS and Foliage

[Vinnart]

Excellent thread! This strikes right to the heart of the matter of the terrains interaction with the units.

I still do not have the game, as I can wait for any kinks to be worked out before I decide to get into it, so all I know is still from the demo. Thanks for testing this out as it gives hopes for all the engine can be. From what I gather tree depths are effecting LOS, which is great. My concern is are they, and the other objects on the maps effecting COVER properly?

I do not think CMSF is a bad game, but the demo did not grab me as much as I hoped it would. One of the things I guess that turned me off from buying the game from playing the demo is the terrain, and some ther things like non-adjustable waypoints. The map offered no cover except buildings. Other than that, it was only open ground. I think it would be great if they included a different map with more various terrains in any future demo to show how different terrains effect LOS,cover, and concealment. Personaly, I am not a fan of desert warfare maps since there is usually not much terrain to work with for infantry tactics. Good to hear there can be maps made that mimic woods and other types of terrains. The different terrains, and their effects on cover and concielement was something I liked most about CMx1 and missed when I tried CMSF.

[aka_tom_w]

when you play the v1.05 demo (when it comes out) it should really feel like a WHOLE new game for you.

They are really working out all the bugs, with each new patch, and v1.05 will be a big step forward. Trust me.

[Vinnart]

Thanks, Tom. I really look forward to seeing where it is at with v1.05. I think the engine and game have much potential.

[Cpl Steiner]

The tree density numbers come out by chance in a handy pneumonic: DCAFE (sounds like decaff coffee). Easy to remember.

[Roter Stern]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

The tree density numbers come out by chance in a handy pneumonic: DCAFE (sounds like decaff coffee). Easy to remember.

Good eye! This reminds me of all the insane 'backronyms' people come up with ... APPETITE - Air Pallet Partial Extraction Tube Integrated Test Equipment

But on topic, aside from a bump - just a quick note that the LOS values from the previous few tests seem unchanged in 1.05.

[hoolaman]

A pneumonic? Sounds unhealthy

[gibsonm]

1.06 looks at this too.

From the readme:

"• Trees block LOS more strongly."

[Roter Stern]

Originally posted by gibsonm:

1.06 looks at this too.

From the readme:

"• Trees block LOS more strongly."

Ah good eye, I missed that in the patch notes. I shall load up the original test scenario and have a look at it again.

[Roter Stern]

Another slow Friday, another excuse to play around with CMSF, another excuse to photoshop something

In light of the recent changes in v1.06 to LOS in general and Foliage effect in particular, I'm revisiting this topic at hand.

The set up is exactly the same as in the very first post - long lanes of trees of varying types and densities, with a unit at one end of each - a Syrian Army 3-man FO team. This time however, I'm actually going to have a look at all 6 tree types and their 3 main densities. Not including the "grid" density, since it was more or less established that those do no actually block LOS, but rather greatly narrow down the FOV.

Seeing how the new LOS system in v1.06 has been expanded to make a distinction between completely blocked, partially blocked, and clear LOS - I'm also going to keep track of that.

One very important thing I'd like to remind everyone to keep in mind is that the foliage tiles in CMx2 are treated very differently from the way they were treated back in CMx1. In CMx1 foliage tiles had a very constant and uniform effect on the LOS mainly because the 3D in-game representations of the trees were purely visual and not taken into account by the game engine. Where as in CMx2 each and every tree model we see in-game actually has its own individual effect on the LOS.

In short, if you were to make a dozen tree tiles in CMx1 each one of them would have the exact same effect on the LOS - that is not the case in CMx2. Because of that the numbers below should not be taken as absolute, but rather as approximate guidelines.

The first value is the "Max LOS" - that is the distance at which at least one of the team members is able to see a few points along the width of the respective 56m tree lane. In game this is depicted by the target line occasionally turning gray, never blue, and mostly staying 'blocked'.

The second value is the "Clear LOS" - that is the distance at which all of the team members are able to reliably see the entire width of their 56m tree lane. In game this is depicted by the target line mostly staying blue, occasionally gray, and almost never blocked.

The 'photos' are for those, who much like myself, can't seem to remember what each of those tree types look like in-game The 'areal photo' is of density-2 foliage.

A printer friendly version...

[Rokossovski]

Very nice. I especially like the addition of "photos" of the trees with soldiers shown alongside for scale. I've saved a copy to use as a reference during map creation. Thanks!