Help needed for editor please

[sandy]

I am trying to use the editor as a surrogate for Quick Battles

I have spent several hours so far without any real success.

Here is an example:

I call up a new battle - map 1km x 1km featureless and flat (unedited) {I had wanted 2km x 2km, but when I try this the editor seizes up...}

I put an objective for each side in the middle of the map, worth 100 points

I add a US M1 platoon of 4 tanks

I add a Syrian T55 company of 10 tanks

I designate the west as the US friendly map edge

I designate the east as the Syrian friendly map edge

I save and test

Result:

The US sets up in an E-W line on the west map edge, facing east.

The Syrians also setup in an E-W line on the west map edge also facing east.

The opposing forces are about 100m apart on the same side of the map, the Syrians just north of the US

After a turn or two all the Syrian tanks are burning, so I call a cease fire

Result is called a draw as both sides are credited with their 100 point objectives in the map centre.

Questions:

1. How do I get the opposing sides to set up on opposite sides of the map, facing each other?

2. Why do the Syrians get credited with their objective, when they have no forces left on the map?

3. Why do the US get credited with their objective, in the map centre, when they never took it?

All comments appreciated

[jomni]

must be a cease fire bug.

happened to be before as well.

i suggest you also give other objectives like casualty and condition targets

[sandy]

Also, before anybody mentions adding setup zones to the map, yes I have a blue setup area on the west side and a red setup area on the east side.

These are ignored by the units that I add.

[jomni]

That's the QB bug.

I avoid QB and find set missions more enjoyable.

QB also has some funny force selections at times.

[sandy]

I know that QBs don't work - that is why I am trying to use the editor as a substitute.

I read posts saying the editor was very good...

Could somebody from BF tell me if these issues are bugs or features, as I cannot tell!

(Set missions don't really work either, that's why I am trying to set up QBs to experiment)

[birdstrike]

I hope this isn't too dumb a question, but did you deploy the units in the editor yourself or did you just purchase them?

[Sgt Joch]

sandy, it takes a bit more work to setup a scenario.

1. after you purchase units, you have to click on "deploy red" and "deploy blue" and manually deploy red and blue units on the map where you want them on the respective friendly edges;

2. In the map editor, you can also lower the elevation of the blue and red side, so units do not start right away in the LOS of each other.

After these simple changes, your scenario will be more playable. One way to understand the editor is to load up an existing simple scenario and see how it is setup.

[sandy]

Thanks for responses

No I did not manually deploy them - I assumed they would start in the designated setup zones.

Manual deployment requires multiple mouse clicks per unit - if you change units you have to redeploy each individual unit again, so editor cannot do the job of QB generator I see (without much unecessary extra time)

Why cannot default editor simply place units for each side in their setup zones (or near friendly map edges) rather than setting both sides up in the same place as it does now?

I did try loading existing scenarios also but found that MORE confusing - in some ways it is easier to start from scratch with nothing and see what happens.

I dont mind units setting up in LOS, I am trying to see what happens when specific picked units engage each other at typical ranges, and to set up mini battles with picked forces against the AI

This was easy to do in CM1, but is difficult and time consuming in CMSF.

(Not an improvement to me)

[birdstrike]

Yes the editor is a little overwhelming at first, but once you got used to it, you will welcome all the changes made from previous CM games.

Originally posted by sandy:

Why cannot default editor simply place units for each side in their setup zones (or near friendly map edges) rather than setting both sides up in the same place as it does now?

It can do this, but you need to assign the units to an AI group, then mark the AI group's setup zone on the map (over the already marked setup zone).

By default all units are considered to be in AI group 1, so after buying your units as usual, you can enter the AI panel and click on "plan 1" for either red or blue, then check if Group 1 is active, and there is listed SETUP below. Paint the AI setup area over the setup area you already created in the Map editor. Now the game will set up the units you purchased in the setup zones without you needing to do it.

If you want to tell the units to attack, you can also add an order by pressing "Add", right next to SETUP.

There will be added "ORDER 2" to the list and you can paint an area on the map, where you want the units to move to (for example the starting point of the enemy units), then you can change the ROE of the unnits by picking order from the four lists at the bottom-left. I would suggest to use "Assault" or "Max Assault" for the first,

ignore the next one (this is only for buildings), the third one should be "Active", and the last one to "No Dismount".

I hope this helps you a little.

[Roter Stern]

Originally posted by sandy:

Why cannot default editor simply place units for each side in their setup zones (or near friendly map edges) rather than setting both sides up in the same place as it does now?

Firstly that is because the editor is designed to give the scenario designer ultimate control over the scenario – it only does what you tell it to do. And secondly there are too many variables with deploying unit which the editor will not be able to figure out on its own … for example – what is the editor supposed to do when you define several independent setup zones, which of the zones should the troops be deployed into? What if certain units are supposed to be “immobile” in the setup phase, i.e. out of the setup zone, how is the editor supposed to evaluate that?

But like birdstrike said above, you can have the AI do that once the battle starts. Although I’m afraid that if manual unit deployment is too hard for you to figure out, AI scripting is going to be completely out of the question…

As for being granted points for objectives you did not actually capture – that was a result of a ceasefire, especially since Syrians had no units left, which most likely resulted in a Syrian surrender and hence an automatic Total Victory for the Blue player.

Also, why are you moving units one-by-one? Why can’t you select every single unit for a given side and move them over as a group to the other side of that map, if that is what you want?

[ August 14, 2007, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: The Louch ]

[sandy]

Dear Louch

It is not that manual unit placement is too hard - it is too tedious to have to do it all the time when I wish to repeatedly edit files to try different units, because the QB function is broken by design (No, I still don't get it!).

I understand that manual unit placement via the editor allows a designer maximum flexibility - But what I am asking why the editor defaults to putting both sides units in essentially the same place (which also happens in QBs) instead of on opposite sides of the map. (A better idea in my humble, not-getting-it, mind)

I think that is a good question and I am still waiting for a good answer.

Anyway my timewasting trying to use the editor has now hit a new bug - everytime I try to run a new (edited)battle the game takes me to a password screen. ie all games are defaulting to PBEM - help, how do I stop this?

Yes I have tried a PBEM game today, not getting very far with 15 meg PBEM files....

[Roter Stern]

Ok first of all please don’t call me “dear”... that sends shivers down my spine

Secondly, lets leave the game bashing in the General forum, there are plenty of threads for that.

Ok now, if all you’re doing is just experimenting with “unit-X vs unit-Y”, try this out… paint the entire map with both Red-1 and Blue-1 setup zones. Go to the AI editor, select Blue Plan 1 and without changing anything else paint the area of the map you’d like the Blue forces to deploy in. Then select Red Plan 1, and again, without changing any other settings paint the area of the map you’d like the Red to deploy in.

This way regardless of whichever way you change the units and whichever side you select to play, the AI force will start in the designated spot and you as the player will be able to deploy your units where ever you want.

...which is basically exactly what birdstrike was saying earlier.

As for that password “bug”… are you sure you don’t have it set to “2 Player – Email” instead of “1 Player – RT/WeGo” during the game start up?

[ August 14, 2007, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: The Louch ]

[sandy]

OK dumb sandy did have the game set up wrong when I kept getting PBEM games that day - THAT was a stupid user error and not a bug

But I am still waiting for answers to all my prior editor questions:

1. Why can the editor not default to setting up units on opposite sides of the map, instead of in the same place? (might help QBs where the same thing happens as well?)

2. Why do Reds (? both sides) get map objectives when they are all dead or surrendered?

3. Why do Blues (? both sides) get map objectives when thay have not actually taken them?

Since first posting I have seen bugs 2. and 3. also in other user created scenarios that I have tried...so it isn't just the way I used the editor.

[jomni]

#2 and #3 this happens when the AI surrenders or you call a ceasefire... it seems to be a game bug. not related to editor.