Exit Before/After Question

[rotapper]

Exit Before/After

Does this count as time elapsed from the beginning of a scenario, or time from when you reach the current order zone?

For instance, reinforcements enter 10 minutes into a map and I want them to sit in setup zone for 5 minutes before moving. Would the exit after be set to 15 minutes or 5?

[Mishga]

I am curious about this as well. I see some scenarios with a "step ladder" timer...and others with the time increments set exactly the same for each order zone.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Bump, good question!

[Paper Tiger]

I'm not an expert but I've done a few experiments with AI scripting to see how it all works and here's what I think I know...

The Exit After time is since the start of the scenario, not since the new order became active.

I tried an experiment where an Infantry platoon had to move from waypoint to waypoint on an otherwise empty map. They would move from one identifiable terrain feature to another.

The planned sequence was, 3 mins to get there, exit after 5 mins. On to waypoint 2, repeat, the idea being that they would move there, wait until 5 mins were up and then move on again etc... Worked fine for the first waypoint but after that, they were moving out after a brief regrouping.

Tried again with Exit before 3 mins, Exit after 10 for the second waypoint and it worked like a charm. The third waypoint, 3 mins to get there, Exit after 15 mins. So they moved from waypoint to waypoint in 5 minute waves.

As long as nobody shoots at them, they'll do it like you command. But they are HORRIBLY prone to do the Crawl of Death if they receive even a small amount of incoming fire.

I'd be very happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[jomni]

AI "Crawl of Death"...

Looks like Close Combat all over again.

[Cpl Steiner]

It would make sense to have the "Exit After" time be relative to the scenario start time, as then you could coordinate groups more effectively by giving several groups the same "Exit After" time. If it was relative to when the unit arrived at the waypoint it would be harder to coordinate groups as they might arrive at their waypoints at different times.

For the same reason, I imagine "Exit Before" is relative to the scenario start time as well.

For instance, "Exit After 5:00" coupled with "Exit Before 10:00" should make the group start to move out 5 minutes into the game but allow the group 5 minutes to completely vacate the waypoint. This would encourage the TacAI to have some units moving and others covering them (in theory).

[Roter Stern]

I’m sorry to sound like “another grumpy little RTFM’er”, but have you tried reading the fantastic manual? I think it’s pretty definitive… page 126:

The “Exit Before” option causes the Group to try very hard to get to the next Order before the specified time is reached. This does not mean the Group will do it, just that it will try. If it has taken excessive casualties, is immobilized or heavily engaged it may blow the set “Exit Before” time.

The “Exit After” option does the opposite by telling the Group to stay at the current Map Zone until the specified time is reached. With this setting a Group never moves on to the next Order before the “Exit After” time is reached.

Key words “time reached”, as opposed to “time on order elapsed”.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I AM FREAKING OUT!!!!!

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by The Louch:

Key words “time reached”, as opposed to “time on order elapsed”.

BS. That's as clear as mud!

[Paper Tiger]

The Louch: Ha ha! I had to laugh. The manual is pretty good on most things but not this. I have read and read that many times but it's not clear at all. It's obvious that Rotapper has read it too.

My experiments were with Exit After and I think I've understood it. You have designed a couple of corking scenarios, what's your take on this? People are looking for clearer explanations than the manual.

[jomni]

I read the manual and my initial notion is as explained. So I find nothing wrong with the manual.

[Paper Tiger]

Okay, I did another experiment this morning. This seems to be the way it works.

The scenario starts at 0.00. (T+0)

If you want your group to move from waypoint to waypoint at five minute stages the instructions are:

Set-up Exit Before 0.00 Exit After 0.00

They will go to order 1 immediately.

Order 1 I want them to move to waypoint 1 as quickly as possible. I want them to wait until T+5. The order is:

Exit before 2.00 Exit After 5.00.

(they should try to reach waypoint 1 within 2 mins and then wait until T+5)

Then, I want them to move to waypoint 2. I want them to do exactly the same. This time the order is:

Exit before 2.00 Exit after 10.00

So the Exit After time should be T+ whatever from the beginning of the scenario.

If I wanted the do exactly the same but delay the groups movement from the set-up zone by 2 mins, I would enter:

Set-up Exit After 2.00

Order 1 Exit after 7.00

Order 2 Exit after 12.00

I admit that I was confused when I read the manual because I thought that it meant, "don't look at the next order until X minutes after this order begins."

I hope this helps.

[tc237]

hmm..

If "Exit Before" was worded "Arrive Before" would it have the same meaning and be more clear?

To me it seems like that's what the function is trying to do, have the unit Arrive at a location Before a specific time.

The word Exit is confusing me a bit.

[SlowMotion]

Aren't those two times simply telling "try to move to next area within time After to Before"?

So if Exit After is 2:00 and Exit Before is 5:00, then the group tries to move to next area between 2 to 5 minutes.

[Paper Tiger]

Slowmotion: No, Exit Before tells the unit to move to the defined map zone within X mins.

The Exit After command tells the unit not to look at the NEXT order until this time has been reached.

Example, order 1 for units starting in the set-up zone, you give the unit Exit Before 2:00 and Exit After 5:00. You paint a map zone 100m away.

The unit will try to move from the set-up zone to map zone 1 within 2 minutes and then sit there, support firing or whatever until the 5 minutes are up. Ie, if they get there in 1 minute, they'll sit there for 4 minutes, or if they take 3 minutes to get there, they'll sit there for 2 more minutes. Then it moves on to order 2.

[SlowMotion]

Paper Tiger:

The way I understand the manual *BOTH* After and Before are about when to move to next area. The more important time is Exit After - when to leave current area. How fast it can get to next area depends on which units are in the group. Infantry can only move so fast, no matter what you use in Exit Before.

[jomni]

...especially when they're under fire and doing the crawl of death.