Keeping squads together

[Brian Smith]

I'm enjoying playing and learning this game, but I'd appreciate some advice please on keeping my infantry squads together.

I was playing the first Poland campaign mission from the German side and into the last stages of the fight I had knots of mismatched troops all over the shop. I noticed at one point after reinforcements had arrived that the squad leader was miles behind the rest of his unit, and on another occasion, the squad leader had moved far in front of his men (and subsequently got brassed up by the baddies). I must be doing something wrong.

I select the squad by double-clicking on the squad leader (don't know the rank, this is the first time I've played the German side in any wargame I think), then pass my order (usually a move command, wedge formation and then dispersed, if they might come under fire).

Is there a need to stop them from time to time to rally them or keep them in formation? Towards the end I was having to draw a box around likely groups and give orders that way - when I double-clicked on a squad leader's icon, I often found his squad was scattered all over the map, with individuals mixed in with other squads, widely separated. Right-clicking on a destination showed a formation spread across 500 metres!

Any advice gratefully received. Also any hints on reassigning the fellas who took over captured guns. I understand from the manual I need to put my less impressive guys onto those crews for when they are taken off me, but I don't know how to do that.

smith

[Moon]

One idea is to select squads during the Setup Phase and assign them to a group (double-click commander to highlight entire squad, then use SHIFT-1...9 to assign them to group 1...9). Then, when you hit 1...9 on your keyboard, all units belonging to that group will be automatically selected, no matter where they are on the map.

However, from your description it sounds like you might also want to indeed give your squads orders across shorter distances. Let the soldiers catch breath once in a while and adjust their formation etc. Your soldiers will be much more efficient that way because proximity to friendly units and the squad leader has a positive effect on a lot of things, including morale.

Martin

[Moon]

Oh, forgot one... as for re-assigning your units. You only do this after the battle is over, and before starting the next one. Before the next battle, in the "Units" window where you purchase/organise your task force, make sure that you re-arrange the crews of captured equipment (click and drag individual soldier "cards") so that once the captured equipment is taken off the list (usually after 1-2 battles), you don't lose valuable soldiers with it.

Martin

[Brian Smith]

Thanks for the replies Martin, I think that's what I'm doing, giving them too long move orders.

Re the reassigning, how do you drag them? I see a screen with what I assume are my left-over troops on the right side and when I click on each, I see more detail on the left, including options to promote or award them. I tried dragging my guys cards down into other squads, but they wouldn't shift. I know I'm overlooking something simple, but can't see it.

thanks

smith

[Moon]

The simple thing you're overlooking is that you are in the wrong screen. The screen I was referring to is the Units screen of the NEXT battle, not the screen at the end of a battle where you award experience points and promotions. I know that the manual is a little confusing in this regard.

Martin

[FinnN]

Originally posted by Brian Smith:

I'm enjoying playing and learning this game, but I'd appreciate some advice please on keeping my infantry squads together.

I was playing the first Poland campaign mission from the German side and into the last stages of the fight I had knots of mismatched troops all over the shop. I noticed at one point after reinforcements had arrived that the squad leader was miles behind the rest of his unit, and on another occasion, the squad leader had moved far in front of his men (and subsequently got brassed up by the baddies). I must be doing something wrong.

I select the squad by double-clicking on the squad leader (don't know the rank, this is the first time I've played the German side in any wargame I think), then pass my order (usually a move command, wedge formation and then dispersed, if they might come under fire).

Is there a need to stop them from time to time to rally them or keep them in formation? Towards the end I was having to draw a box around likely groups and give orders that way - when I double-clicked on a squad leader's icon, I often found his squad was scattered all over the map, with individuals mixed in with other squads, widely separated. Right-clicking on a destination showed a formation spread across 500 metres!

...

Yep, people in squads don't keep together. The biggest problem isn't when they're moving - it's when they're sitting somewhere with no orders. They don't do this immediately, but seem to get bored after a while or something. You'll find members with higher skills (usually the commander) will wander off on their own towards where the fighting is. Sometimes they seem to change their minds and head back again, but not always. The problem is made worse by different speeds, someone suggested giving leaders heavy equipment to slow them down - I haven't tried that though. The way to avoid this is to ALWAYS give hold position orders to any troops that aren't doing anything. Tanks do the same thing btw.

If they do get dispersed then issue them a move order with a formation - either line or concentration (? - the one with the arrows pointing inwards anyway) works best for me. If some are already in position, select them individually or by drawing a box around them and then override their movement command with a hold position order.

In general once you're in contact with the enemy it's dangerous to rely on the preset formations as the men will head straight for them ignoring cover and what's going on around them. This isn't a problem for assaults or quick dashes into positions but no good for just about anything else. Tanks seems a bit more intelligent, but it could be they're just a bit tougher and not as reliant on cover to stay alive - in any case I tend to only need to give targetting orders to concentrate fire.

Have fun

Finn

[Brian Smith]

Originally posted by Moon:

The simple thing you're overlooking is that you are in the wrong screen. The screen I was referring to is the Units screen of the NEXT battle, not the screen at the end of a battle where you award experience points and promotions. I know that the manual is a little confusing in this regard.

Martin

Ahhhh! Penny drops.

[Brian Smith]

Originally posted by FinnN:

Have fun

Finn

Thanks for the help Finn!

[thewood]

Is there a plan to patch this behavior. This is the type of babysitting that drives me crazy. I also find that, with my infantry, idle hands are the devils work tools. They tend to kind of meander around if left on thier own for to long, unless you go and give them a hold order. That means I have to keep on top of them and be there when they finish an order. This is OK with a couple of dozen troops, but gets very unwieldy in larger battles.

[Webwing]

I think if they just stood there like robots wouldn't be very realistic either.

It appears to me that the commander moves forward since he is the one with higher scouting skills so he checks the enemy positions. Maybe if there is a soldier with high scouting skills and the commander had less that would be better. Then you would have the soldier/scout moving forward which would be ok in my opinion.

[thewood]

Robot behavior is not what I am looking for. Why is always extermes? Having a couple of guys wander almost 200 meters from where they were supposed to stop while the rest of the squad wanders around a 25 meter radius is not what I want. Until someone developes an AI that we can trust, robot behavior is probably better than the other option.

[someone]

Slightly off topic, but I cant stand the fact that when I select a group of different units (e.g. tanks & infantry) or even just infantry, they move at their own individual speeds. I don't want my f*****g tanks moving way ahead of my infantry when I specifically set them to a certain formation, otherwise what is the point of formations?

It takes the fun out of the game when I constantly have to baby sit every f*****g unit just so they keep a reasonable formation. Wouldn't it be a simple matter to add some code or add a command to move at the speed of the slowest unit?

This and the fact that you cannot add waypoints are seriously diluting my enjoyment of what is otherwise a great game.

[Edgge]

Someone

I certainly agree. Improved formation movement would greatly enhance gameplay. At present I have to move in small increments so my infantry doesn't get too far behind. This undermines good tactical manuevering.

Don't know if this can/will be addressed but in the meantime I'll accept that this is a game and not a simulation of good militaty tactics (in spite of what it says on the back of the game box/manual: "...ultimate WW2 tactical sim".

The game has so many things I do enjoy it overrides my frustration. I hope when the newness wears off I don't end up shelving the game because of the frustrations. However, Battlefront/1C seem to be serious about improving the gameplay and I'm doing my best to remain positive.

[someone]

Agreed. I love the game but there are alot of niggly things that keep the game from reaching it's full potential. I too remain positive and hopefully they'll come through.

[Prankster]

Group the squads together is handy with the CTL+#1 etc (but only really for moving troops from one location to another), anything else and you have to really micro-manage. YOu could used CTRL 1-4 for one squad.

Click #1, and click STORM option on a trench, and all, running a different speeds, will mostly be cut down before they get half across the countryside, or out of the treeline.

So you have to then manually seperate the squad into smaller teams. Heavier weapon troops, set them prone in the tree line and attack an area (where's cover arc option??) for a bit of supporting fire for your advancing troops. There's no point in advancing the Bazooka man to storm the trench either, so you have to set them prone and hold, your commander is armed with a 45 colt (very affective assault weapon *rolls eyes)), who's usually faster and lead the attack (i.e. die first), so it leaves you with 6 squad members armed with Garandes to take on the trench. This is real micro management... and that's without worrying about the other 6 tanks, and 2 squads, who by now have rotated in the wrong direction or have aimlessly wandered over the hill into a a pack of waiting Pak's?

[Prankster]

Oh, and even more annoying is the way Armour STOPS, when you alter it's course/direction, very annoying when you're trying to get the tank out of emeny LOS... zig zag = death!

This game has heaps of potential though, and I really want it to do well, it's just these little things that need to be sorted out.

[R33GZ]

Someone, I think you can issue a 'defend' order for infantry and click on a tank, this should make them follow in the tanks tracks as far as Im aware... I havent tried it yet, will have a look tonight.

[Prankster]

Another difficulty I have is that even if you assign BAR guy and a Bazooka guy to CTRL+1 (Keeping the heavy weapons together), and put the rest of the squad in CTRL+2, in the heat of an assault if you double click on the squad leader to shift the point of attack, it'll select the Heavy Weapons members as well, and they will proceed to leave their cover and run forth to join the squad.

[thewood]

Originally posted by Prankster:

Another difficulty I have is that even if you assign BAR guy and a Bazooka guy to CTRL+1 (Keeping the heavy weapons together), and put the rest of the squad in CTRL+2, in the heat of an assault if you double click on the squad leader to shift the point of attack, it'll select the Heavy Weapons members as well, and they will proceed to leave their cover and run forth to join the squad.

Yeah, it took 3 or 4 times of making this mistake before I figured it out. Anyone who says they issue orders at the squad-level with no micromanagment must lose a lot of organic squad support.