Interview at Armchair General

[PseudoSimonds]

Linky

[Michael Dorosh]

Matt is quoted as :"The fact that he actually survived the battle and I was able to issue him extra skill points, promote him in rank and even award him a medal and use him in subsequent campaign missions really gives the game a cool persistent world type feel as you become attached to various units and even individual soldiers."

Tsk, tsk, wasn't that something Steve was against in the CM series?

Seriously, though, great interview and I know what Matt meant by the desire to recapture the magic that surrounded CM in 2000. Here's hoping we can do it again. Vignettes like the anti-tank dude jumping in a tank and attempting to save the day certainly bode well.

[Salkin]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Matt is quoted as :"The fact that he actually survived the battle and I was able to issue him extra skill points, promote him in rank and even award him a medal and use him in subsequent campaign missions really gives the game a cool persistent world type feel as you become attached to various units and even individual soldiers."

Tsk, tsk, wasn't that something Steve was against in the CM series?

Seriously, though, great interview and I know what Matt meant by the desire to recapture the magic that surrounded CM in 2000. Here's hoping we can do it again. Vignettes like the anti-tank dude jumping in a tank and attempting to save the day certainly bode well.

Yep...Matt really knows what buttons to press to get to my hard earned cash .

That mini-AAR really made me curious about this game.

I read somewhere that there are a random factor to certain scenarios , I wonder if this is what he meant or does maybe equipment differ ? ...

Well, thanks for the link anyway PseudoSimonds.

//Salkin

[Madmatt]

From what I have found so far by digging in and getting my fingers all dirty is that ToW uses a very elaborate (and seemingly powerful) scripting structure to dictate resinforcement schedules, placement and makeup. That in of itself seems to make scenarios play very differently depending on how you actually play them.

I will be honest though, I am not what you would call a script savvy guy so a lot of what i am seeing is all Russian to me (literally in some cases) but from my extensive background with IL-2 (ask Harv or jwxspoon about my Bastogne mission!) it looks like the scripting capabilities of this game will keep people busy for a LONG time with what it seems to be able to offer.

Madmatt

[Salkin]

So it's all scripted then and not dynamic, or is my school english failing me ?

Nice interview by the way Matt.

[EDIT: Never mind I think I found the answer !]

//Salkin

[ July 28, 2006, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Salkin ]

[Jack Carr]

I read the interview. AMAZING! I found myself cheering when I read this:

[Matt] Let me talk about a key moment that occurred when I demoed the game last weekend. In this battle, I had an ad hoc mixed Russian detachment of infantry, Anti-tank Rifle teams, a single KV-1 and 45mm AT guns tasked to defend a train station against a strong armor heavy German assault with infantry support. My initial disposition was pretty good and the first few attempts by the German AI to breach my trench lines were pushed back. After regrouping and gaining some reinforcements, the Germans concentrated on a weak flank area in one of my trenches and breached my defenses and stormed across. It was at this time, that my KV-1, having been occupied on my other flank, came over to try and stem the flow of German infantry and armor that was quickly gaining a foothold to route my remaining forces. As the KV-1 took round after round from the German armor, it was finally immobilized and the crew, now badly shaken, bailed out, only to be gunned down by MG fire. Nearby lying in a trench, I had the remnants of a 45mm AT gun crew (the gun had run out of ammo repulsing the first attack). One innovative feature of ToW is that you can not only pick up discarded weapons and equipment from the ground, but you can also recrew vehicles and guns that are left abandoned. You can even capture enemy equipment as well. I ordered this gun crew to charge for the KV-1 as the Germans pushed ahead with their assault. Enemy infantry fire cut down the crew as they made their way to the tank, but one guy made the perilous journey and climbed in through the open hatch. Myself and about 5 other guys that were watching the game sat with our jaws wide open as he made his way to the driver compartment to start up the KV-1’s engine (each vehicle has a crew monitor which allows you see what position they are in). Once the KV was running, I guess he noticed that it wasn’t going anywhere, so he jumped into the gunners seat and begun to swing its big turret around to get a rear shot on a German Pz III that had ignored him. We watched as the cannon reload indicator slowly filled up, holding our breaths in anticipation. He finally got the gun loaded, raised his gun just a tad and fired. We literally jumped up and begun yelling and applauding the effort, even though he missed.

Man does this sound good. I'll spec out a P4 Extreme tonight!

[Redwolf]

Jack, don't get a P4 for gaming. Wait a week for Conroe or get an AMD.

I have to say that a 45mm gun crew manning a KV-1, much less an already immobilized one, pushes realism a little.

I have no problem at all picking up MGs, even a bailed out tank crew picking up any kind of smallarm or MG. But crew-served weapon crews should only be able to convert to heavy infantry by picking up weapons, and vehicle crews should stay in their domain at least.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Redwolf:

Jack, don't get a P4 for gaming. Wait a week for Conroe or get an AMD.

I have to say that a 45mm gun crew manning a KV-1, much less an already immobilized one, pushes realism a little.

I have no problem at all picking up MGs, even a bailed out tank crew picking up any kind of smallarm or MG. But crew-served weapon crews should only be able to convert to heavy infantry by picking up weapons, and vehicle crews should stay in their domain at least.

I'd say leave it up to the player, as discussed in another thread. ASL let you recrew with untrained crewmen - adds to the fun, I say. Ubergrogs can turn that switch off - or randomize the ability of units to crew different hardware.

Besides, what better way to recreate those commando missions ala Medal of Honor where the objective is to "steal" a Tiger?

[Madmatt]

Sure, its gamey and pushes reality a bit, but then so does using bailed crews in CM as ad-hoc scouting units...

The key thing to realize is that its FUN, and actually seems to work very well and far from skewing play balance, actually seems to improve it.

Its the one thing that really struck me about ToW. Every time I encountered an abstraction or something I thought was a little gamey, I was amazed at how taken as a whole, all the game elements really came together to improve overall balance and flow. Its obvious that 1C has put massive amount of time and effort in ToW to strike that sweet spot between play balance, realism and overall fun.

With regards to the script issue, no its not pre-scripted, but rather it uses a scripting engine.

Pre-scripted would be like in Chance Encounter where on turn 10, those three Hellcats are going to show up in CMBO. With scripting, the scenario designer could have said that if the Germans still had the Tiger, the three M-18's should arrive, but if they only had the StuG's then maybe bring in some extra infantry instead and just one Hellcat, or add a random timer to how long it takes for them to appear, or maybe make them arrive somewhere else.

Basically scripting allows you massive amounts of freedom to make a battle much more dynamic and interact directly with the players actions and not just pre-set in stone set of conditions.

Madmatt

[Salkin]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

Sure, its gamey and pushes reality a bit, but then so does using bailed crews in CM as ad-hoc scouting units...

The key thing to realize is that its FUN, and actually seems to work very well and far from skewing play balance, actually seems to improve it.

Its the one thing that really struck me about ToW. Every time I encountered an abstraction or something I thought was a little gamey, I was amazed at how taken as a whole, all the game elements really came together to improve overall balance and flow. Its obvious that 1C has put massive amount of time and effort in ToW to strike that sweet spot between play balance, realism and overall fun.

With regards to the script issue, no its not pre-scripted, but rather it uses a scripting engine.

Pre-scripted would be like in Chance Encounter where on turn 10, those three Hellcats are going to show up in CMBO. With scripting, the scenario designer could have said that if the Germans still had the Tiger, the three M-18's should arrive, but if they only had the StuG's then maybe bring in some extra infantry instead and just one Hellcat, or add a random timer to how long it takes for them to appear, or maybe make them arrive somewhere else.

Basically scripting allows you massive amounts of freedom to make a battle much more dynamic and interact directly with the players actions and not just pre-set in stone set of conditions.

Madmatt

Sounds like fun. I work five weekends in a row now. Shouldn't be a real problem since I know where to put the extra cash .

//Salkin

[Madmatt]

Oh one other comment about the universal recrewing.

We are looking at some other options with this (maybe make it a setting that can be turned on or off) but the thing to remember is that the original crews usually have a lot more skill with their weapons and vehicles than any replacement crew will ever have, so while its cool to keep repopulating the crew of the PaK with your spare infantry, by and large, they won't be all that effective doing it. This is due in part to the fact that every soldier in the game is rated on various skills such as leadership, scouting, sighting, driving etc...

Madmatt

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

Pre-scripted would be like in Chance Encounter where on turn 10, those three Hellcats are going to show up in CMBO. With scripting, the scenario designer could have said that if the Germans still had the Tiger, the three M-18's should arrive, but if they only had the StuG's then maybe bring in some extra infantry instead and just one Hellcat, or add a random timer to how long it takes for them to appear, or maybe make them arrive somewhere else.

Which would not be as unrealistic or gamey as it sounds. A battlefield commander might very well be influenced on how many reinforcements to send, based on the actual situation. To use the CE example, if a German battalion commander was getting reports of half a dozen Shermans sitting on the main road, he might be more likely to release his own armour reserves to deal with the problem. Sounds like a lot of fun for scenario designers - hopefully mission briefings will be dynamic to some degree as well?

[Runyan99]

After regrouping and gaining some reinforcements, the Germans concentrated on a weak flank area in one of my trenches and breached my defenses and stormed across. It was at this time, that my KV-1, having been occupied on my other flank, came over to try and stem the flow of German infantry and armor that was quickly gaining a foothold to route my remaining forces.

Did you order the KV to move from flank to flank, or did the AI move the tank on it's own?

If the AI made the decision, then to what extent are you actually playing a game, as opposed to simply watching a little WW2 battle movie on your computer screen?

For me, the essence of wargaming is deciding when and where to move my KV. If the AI is going to take that out of my hands, then what's the point?

[Madmatt]

No, I moved him. You have total control over your units and will never really feel out of the loop, but just like in CM, your units will act on their own behalf at times as they aren't so thrilled about standing still and getting killed.

Madmatt

[ July 28, 2006, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Madmatt ]

[Runyan99]

Okay. I hated the Close Combat RTS games, because I felt out of the loop and out of control at all times.

[Madmatt]

You may on occasion feel like control is slipping away from you, but its not because the AI went on autopilot, but rather bacause the AI is kicking your butt...Or at least thats what happens to me sometimes...

Madenatt

[Siberian HEAT]

I just wanted to pop in and thank Matt et al for providing Armchair with a really nice interview. As a fan of the original Combat Mission (although I am still somewhat of a novice at it) I am already looking forward to seeing more of Theatre of War.

We'll be keeping an eye on its progress!

[John Kettler]

Madmatt,

(suppresses mile long envy streak)

Within broad limits, a gun is a gun. I have no problem with an ATG crew loading and firing a tank cannon, but would be very interested to see the fun which would ensue in trying to start, drive, and especially, shift gears (even Cold War Russian armor had a shortened sledge hammer to get into high gear). Most Russians, recall, had never been around motor vehicles, let alone driven them. Anyone remember the days of manual chokes? Fighting the tank would be exciting, too, for ATG crews don't have to deal with not getting bashed, brained, pinned to the turret wall, etc.

Tank crews should have no problem doing at least basic infantry tasks and typically have SMGs and grenades as standard issue. Indeed, HSU Loza describes not just mounting picket using a dismounted hull MG for local security but running armed recon. Belton Cooper's direct observation of what happens when infantry gets a few hours of familiarization training on Shermans and is sent into battle as tank crew seems very much on point, IMO. Within hours, those so roled were all dead.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Battlefront.com]

Dorosh,

Tsk, tsk, wasn't that something Steve was against in the CM series?

Still am. I'm no more in favor of putting this stuff into CMx2 as I am interested in putting DropTeam's Thor tank in. Yet I loooooove that Thor! I also don't think putting Lego Star Wars guys in CM would be a good idea either, even though I think that game rocks. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Just in case...

This is a very good example of why ToW and CMx2 are complimentary to each other. Each has a different take on the same subject matter. Both kick ass. I would no more want ToW to be like CMx2 than CMx2 to be like ToW. I'd much rather have TWO games that I love to play than effectively one game.

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Dorosh,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Tsk, tsk, wasn't that something Steve was against in the CM series?

Still am. I'm no more in favor of putting this stuff into CMx2 as I am interested in putting DropTeam's Thor tank in. Yet I loooooove that Thor! I also don't think putting Lego Star Wars guys in CM would be a good idea either, even though I think that game rocks. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Just in case...

This is a very good example of why ToW and CMx2 are complimentary to each other. Each has a different take on the same subject matter. Both kick ass. I would no more want ToW to be like CMx2 than CMx2 to be like ToW. I'd much rather have TWO games that I love to play than effectively one game.

Steve </font>

[Battlefront.com]

Tsk, tsk, wasn't that something Steve was against in the CM series?

*hick* I havenofrigginidea whatcha meean

And then when you do provide a feature as a result of one of those comparisons, ya get accused of ripping off another game.

That is the irony! As you know many people were pressuring us to do things exactly like SL/ASL, CC, or Steel Panthers depending on what the feature was and what their own personal favorite was. And yeah, I am sure that if we implemented the Steel Panther's campaign system "as is", like so many people thought they wanted us to do, they would have a) complained that it was just like SP and why didn't we do something different and that we repeated all the same mistakes that the SP campaign system made. So what people REALLY mean to say is they want us to be innovative and try not to repeat the mistakes of others. They just don't see it that way at frist

I'm glad ToW's developers no more fell for that stupid user logic than we did. Otherwise ToW would be just like something else instead of being ToW. Since we already have those other games, what would be the point of that?

Steve