Paper Tiger Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'm currently playtesting a scenario where a US Infantry platoon is defending a wooded village against a determined Syrian counterattack and I've been seeing T-72's survive multiple hits by javelins. This happens almost every time I play the scenario. Sure does make it tough for the ol' US boys. :eek: And then, this afternoon, I saw a BMP-1P(4C) take a hit from a javelin and survive. Wow. I really thought javelins were better than that... Have they been significantly dumbed down in recent patches? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Probably bug or the javelin is not really hitting the tank (this happened in other patches). I think javelin has been dumbed down but in its HE effects, it's not as harmfull for infantry anymore, but this small tactical nuke warhead still destroyst armoured vehicles quite well or at least it should 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 are you playing v1.04? Is the scenario available for others to test? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I have noticed that too. In a 1.04 scenario I am playing, it took 3 javelins to take out a T72 turms. However, part of that may be due to near misses and FOW. All 3 javelins appeared to hit the tank, but I noticed a nearby building was destroyed after the second javelin hit, which would indicate it hit the building rather than the tank. I play at Elite. The general effectiveness of javelins has been reduced in 1.03 and 1.04. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 It would be my opinion in the game that my experience is that if a Javelin makes a direct hit on a tank or vehicle (in V1.04) it knocks it out. BUT sometimes Javelins miss. They are not %100 accurate, (which is as it should in reality I think). In my experience in the game they are about %90-%95 acccurate and I have never seen a direct hit on a AFV in v1.04 that did not knock the AFV out and make it listed as "destroyed" or at least abandoned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Javelin KO rates against T72 TURMS used to be pretty darned low in the earlier builds but they're better with the latest. Sure its a top attack weapon, but there's always a chance it'll be a top attack into some fender box, or into the composite armor bow, or into that latest generation special armor panel. Some hits might be less fatal than a square-hit thru the engine deck or into the commander's hatch. The last few times i've used Javelin against a building I was surprised it didn't collapse it in one shot! javelin's days of überweapon in the game may be numbered 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 i find with the supplied amount of javelins, you can throw whole volleys onto things so i neve saw something in the game so far wich was not killable by well placed "throwing spear" volley. and as far as i remember the reactive armor equiped RED tanks have "quiet" good stats vs. chemical energy weapons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Definitely using 1.04. The scenario is still being developed but I hope to be able to release it next week. I often follow the javelins to their targets and the missiles are hitting their targets. It could be that I'm just getting very unlucky "die rolls" with my kills. It certainly happened to me often enough in my ASL days. If that's all it is, I'm quite happy but the scenario balance depends on the javelins being 'reasonably' effective. If one T-72 survives, that's it, game over, and I don't really want the game to be decided by a lucky die roll. A US platoon, without other support, has only 12 javelin missiles. Once they're used up, the US has nothing else it can use against an armoured target. This scenario requires the player to use them effectively and using 3+ to kill one tank defineitely upsets that plan. The scenario gives the US 2 ATGM Striker vehicles but they get knocked out pretty quickly. Who knows, maybe my tactics just suck big time... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 When you say low kills against T72 you don't mean the junky early generation T72s in the Reserve forces do you? For the piece-of-crap reserve tanks its almost always one-shot-kills for me. But as the reactive armor blocks multiply so do my problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 MikeyD: T-72 M1's, "the bottom end of the reserve tanks roster" so, nothing special. I haven't had a chance to play again today so I haven't seen it happen again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishga Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Anyone else seen javelins shoot off into the wild blue yonder never to be seen again? It's like the operator is trying to down an overhead MiG or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law&Order Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 yup had that a couple of times, mostly with vehicles on the edge of maps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Anyone else seen javelins shoot off into the wild blue yonder never to be seen again? yes i saw it too. but i guess its their "natural" miss rate in the game, or at least the RED AT launcher have that too sometimes. it doesnt happen too often for me. its not like they shoot "all" of them into the ground in front of em like i saw some others do today with their trusty AT3´s in a QB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I have seen them fly off, I don't think its a problem. Sometimes there is operator error, or a malfunction and they just miss. Oh well. I would say it happens in less then 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 (they should be accurate (I think) %90 - %95 of the time) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunwinglow Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I've had one turn almost at right angles to its launch direction, and still hit the target. Well, A target, I don't know if it was the one the gunner was originally intending! Tim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOG Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Originally posted by wunwinglow: I've had one turn almost at right angles to its launch direction, and still hit the target. Well, A target, I don't know if it was the one the gunner was originally intending! Tim I saw that too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Well, I've been playtesting my new scenario a lot today and I must admit, I only saw a javelin fail to kill once (because it missed) so maybe I've just been incredibly unlucky with the RNG. In the course of one session I see a LOT of launches and it's really nerve-wracking when a tank trundles into view. By the way, the M1134 Stryker ATGM vehicle uses TOW missiles and they're horribly ineffective against the tanks. Very useful against the BMP-1Cs though. On the right angles thing, yes, I see that happen a lot. But they usually find their targets in the end. It seems it's not just the infantry that moves at 45 degree angles... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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